What is "railroading" to you (as a player)?

[Reynard]

So I had this situation last night when a player got upset because he felt the party was being "railroaded" and I take issue with his definition. I set up the adventure in which the party is stuck in the Faewild after the Winter Court stages a coup and takes over. They have locked down the plane, closing gates and using magic to steal plane shift tuning forks from those arriving. The player made some (incorrect) assumptions about why this was happening and then decided to just nope out and plane whift the party home, which is when the player discovered they were at least momentarily trapped in the Faewild and would have to find a way home.

I do not consider this to be railroading. I consider it to be setting up the adventure. There is no predetermined path to finding a way home. They can try anything they want, and they have 2 wishes on hand (and if they used those, they would work, but no one tried). This little jaunt is a side thing right before the climax of the campaign, meant to give them one last level bump as well as potentiually find allies in the Summer Court if they decide to break the Winter Court's hold.

Anyway, two questions:
1) Do you specifically think what I did here was "railroading"?
and 2) In general, how do you define "railroading" or being railroaded as a player ina game?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

A bottle episode adventure is a railroad now? Wild.

Nah, unless you took them from what they were trying to do and made them go to the Feywild, it isnt a railroad.

 

[Artamo]

I guess my question back to the player is what kind of game do they want to play? What specifically are they objecting to, and what would they rather do?

Railroading is such a pejorative term in TTRPGs. I think what you did was put in a constraint that’s based on the background of the adventure. I just don’t get torqued about such things as a player. Even in the most open sandbox games, having a moment of restriction where the rules suddenly shift can create drama. Personally, I welcome that.

 

[payn]

Anyway, two questions:
1) Do you specifically think what I did here was "railroading"?

I think you have provided decent context here, but its still hard to say. Was the campaign a sandbox where the players can do anything they want or just as importantly not do things they dont want? If there was a hard coded understanding that is how the game will proceed, I could see some folks calling it a foul.

Generally though, no I dont think this is a railroad in sense of it just being the adventure set up. Now, how it proceeds and and concludes is TBD, but you place a lot of importance on player agency so id feel confident it would work out if I was a player.

and 2) In general, how do you define "railroading" or being railroaded as a player ina game?

A railroad is a set path and situations are going to occur in order no matter what the players do. There is one and only one solution to move the game forward and all other attempts will dead end to keep the players on the path. Essentially, no agency, but sometimes veiled in the illusion of choice.

 

[TwoSix]

Any time a scene is framed as "your characters are trapped", players are going to be somewhat unhappy. We instinctually want to escape from a trap, it's not surprising that a player who burns a 7th level slot on an escape spell that doesn't work is going to be salty about the combination of "still being stuck" and "wasted a big slot on something that didn't work".

I'm not saying it's a railroad, exactly, but the adventure design is closer to the train station then I would prefer as a player. As a GM, I probably would have framed that concept with more carrot, less stick.

 

[Tigris]

How did the player arrive in the feywild?

I mean they must have gotten thete in some way before being stuck?


I would say something is a railroad whenever players have to do something not from intrinsic motivation (they want to do it), but from extrinsic motivation (they have to do it).



So here in this example players did not wanted to do this (use planeshift to get away) and are forced to do it (planeshift does not work), so its extrinsic.


So in this situation it would have been intrinsic, if they nee beforehand, before enteting the feywild, that the dimension is being closed off, and decided to go in to investigate whats happening.


If they just enter for a random reason without warning/decision and are then stuck it is a railroad event.


Also they can use wish to get out, but not the ability literally made to get out? How should players guess this? As a player I would definitly not risk wasting my wish to try.

 

[Koloth]

IMO - Question 1 - No, the party had at least two options - A - help the locals deal with the Winter Court takeover. B - Wish themselves out of there. I suppose there was - C - Join forces with the Winter Court and split the spoils. Just because the first thing the party tried failed isn't railroading. Just a failed attempt.
Question 2 - Railroading - the party doesn't really have any say in how the campaign goes. Think the Paizo 1-20 adventure paths. You either follow the 'yellow brick road' or the campaign is over.

In the event in question, after the plane shift failed, did the party try any divination/intelligence gathering type stuff to learn why the failure or a better way to get out?

 

[Reynard]

Some clarifications:

I did force them into the faewild as a side trek, but as with most "adventuyres" I write, it is a situation and the players are free to deal with it as they may.

The player who is unhappy (it is only one person, not the whole group) did NOT expend the spell slot. I told them their tuning fork was gone as they were preparing to cast.

Right before this all happened, the players drew from the Deck of Many Things and one PC got voided. They used some magic to discover that the PCs soul was not in the faewild, and have a good idea of where it is in the prime, and what is guarding it. This matters in context because now they know that the object of that self imposed quest is not in the faewild. But the doors are still locked, as such.

 

[Umbran]

Anyway, two questions:
1) Do you specifically think what I did here was "railroading"?

It depends a little on the table agreement, but probably not. It sounds more like situation setup than railroading.

I might consider it railroading if the PCs were engaged in something else, and this came out of left field and you forced them into it.

and 2) In general, how do you define "railroading" or being railroaded as a player ina game?

I have changed my thinking on this over time. Nowadays, how I define it for purposes of discussion here, and how I think about it personally as a player/GM, are a little different.

For technical discussion, railroading is (more or less) the GM negating player agency or action to ensure play proceeds according to a preconceived plan.

For myself, personally, railroading is more about consent. I feel, for myself, that I can exert my agency in relinquishing agency - if I choose to ride the roller coaster, I'm not being railroaded.

 

[schneeland]

Re. (1): I would not consider this railroading, because this is basically the premise of the adventure - and as a player, I can decide if I want to be a part of that or not.

Re. (2): Railroading, to me, means invalidating player choices - I am given the illusion of a choice, but my input is not considered and the outcome is predetermined by the GM.