What is "railroading" to you (as a player)?

[Maxperson]

And why can't that apply to the PCs? The Player can believe that the PC(s) might be plausibly, but not definitely, persuaded by the argument of an NPC (represented by a skill check and hopefully some roleplay).

It does apply to the PCs. The DM can decide that your persuasion auto fails for reasons. The players can decide that the NPCs persuasion check auto fails for reasons. The DM generally decides when the outcome is in doubt and there are reasonable consequences for failure to have a roll by a player. The player decides if the outcome is in doubt, then thinks about it for a while, and decides which of the outcomes happen.

 

[Maxperson]

What if they are sure what to do, but what that is runs against what the PC would plausibly do, by the metrics I've outlined above? By your philosophy, there's nothing to stop the Player from just ignoring any social effect the Player doesn't like.

Skills? Yep. That's the way 5e is written. Spells? No. They can't just decide to ignore a social spell or supernatural ability.

 

[GrimCo]

And I say, "Man I wish we had holo-decks so we wouldn't need any dice at all. But I'll take what I can get with mental and social challenges."

We don't need holodecks, but it would be nice if we had them. LARP has been around for a long time now. Now, to be fair, i'm not biggest LARP fan in general, but I've been to couple dozen of them. We are fortunate here in Croatia that we have some nice locations for LARP, including few castles, some nice abandoned old military complexes, tunnels, abandoned sanatoriums in woods and my HS buddy has company that focuses on high quality larp events ( mostly Nordic LARP style) and we have solid MilSIm airsoft LARP ( again, abandoned military complexes that are open to public help). So, for those who prefer to settle things using their own brain and brawn, LARP is the way to go.

 

[Bill Zebub]

We don't need holodecks, but it would be nice if we had them. LARP has been around for a long time now. Now, to be fair, i'm not biggest LARP fan in general, but I've been to couple dozen of them. We are fortunate here in Croatia that we have some nice locations for LARP, including few castles, some nice abandoned old military complexes, tunnels, abandoned sanatoriums in woods and my HS buddy has company that focuses on high quality larp events ( mostly Nordic LARP style) and we have solid MilSIm airsoft LARP ( again, abandoned military complexes that are open to public help). So, for those who prefer to settle things using their own brain and brawn, LARP is the way to go.

Ooh! Ooh! Can I wear the Beholder costume?

 

[GrimCo]

Ooh! Ooh! Can I wear the Beholder costume?

Probably. My old HS DM is heavy into fantasy larp and he made nice troll costume. He likes trolling around Amount of time, effort and work some people invested in creating costumes is astonishing.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Literally anything is plausible...people do ALL KINDS of crazy, unexpected things. Sometimes those unexpected things signal the emergence of a long-latent personality trait (e.g. Bilbo going off with the dwarves) but sometimes it's just the circumstances. So I'm not sure that 'plausible' actually constrains the choices.

Look, I get it: some players will ignore the emerging story to do something optimal. A great example is when the party is split, and one group is listening to the other group get in trouble, and so they announce, "We go running back to join the others!"

That sends some people into conniptions of frothing anti-metagaming hysteria. And, sure, we all know that the real reason they are running off to join their friends is that the players, not the characters, know the other group is in trouble.

But...so what?

1. Coincidental stuff happens. There are all kinds of reasons that the characters (if they were real) might suddenly have decided to return. Sure, you could ask the players to name one of those reasons, but why even bother? (Unless they have a really good/funny one they want to offer.). This specific coincidence happens in stories and movies all the time. And it can make those stories better.
2. Wait...did they say they are running back? As in, not moving carefully and quietly? Oh, this is gonna be good....

In other words: I just don't worry at all about what is going on in other players heads and why they are declaring certain actions. It's all plausible, the GM has infinite dragons, and I just want everybody to have a good time.


edit: wow so many typos....

You know how I feel about doing something in an RPG because it'll make a good story (unless it happen to be a personality trait of the PC).

This is just another YMMV situation. If I feel the Players are making choices for their PCs that don't meet setting logic, I'm going to bring it to their attention and request an in-character explanation. Obviously you don't have to.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Does it? Or does it cause them to work harder to deceive the GM?

Not in my experience (or my Players are better at deception than I think). Either answer works.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You should go back and read the many responses directly to you that explain just how it is not.

I read them. I just found them unsatisfying if you believe the reverse is true.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It does apply to the PCs. The DM can decide that your persuasion auto fails for reasons. The players can decide that the NPCs persuasion check auto fails for reasons. The DM generally decides when the outcome is in doubt and there are reasonable consequences for failure to have a roll by a player. The player decides if the outcome is in doubt, then thinks about it for a while, and decides which of the outcomes happen.

What reasons though? I would want both sides to do it for in-character reasons, but I've seen to many folks on both sides of the screen use Player self-interest as their motivator instead.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Skills? Yep. That's the way 5e is written. Spells? No. They can't just decide to ignore a social spell or supernatural ability.

In any regard, being able to ignore social actions for out-of-setting reasons is a problem for me, spell or no spell.