What is "railroading" to you (as a player)?

[Crimson Longinus]

I have played with amazing DMs, some of whom are professional actors, directors, and script writers. None of them have ever been able to scare me. They've been amazing at evoking a horror atmosphere in the game, but no fear. But then no horror book or movie has ever scared me, either. Other than the surprise jump "scares" which aren't really fear but just an involuntary reaction to surprise.

Expecting the DM to be able to evoke fear in players isn't in my opinion a reasonable position to take.

I'd suggest that you are anomalously unsuitable audience for the whole horror genre. Most people can feel scared by various forms of horror fiction, and the entire appeal of the genre is based on that.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Yes, it indeed is! Humans have been telling stories that evoke emotional reactions in others as longs as humans have existed, so it is indeed simple. So simple that a literal caveman could do it! And with a roleplaying game where the listeners are immersed in the viewpoint of a character in the story and get to make decisions for them it is even simpler, as this creates a far better connection to the events than just passively reading a book. And of course that it is done live with people setting next to you, means you can read the room and adjust things to maintain the atmosphere.

Telling a story is different than running a game. For most of us, anyway.

But of course you can just decide all this is too hard and not even try, and reach for the dice instead. But that's not the choice I would make.

Aren’t you the one to point out that horror is a difficult genre for RPGs?

I also love how it always comes back to the dice being everything instead of just an additional tool. As if narration and description and all that just somehow gets abandoned by anyone who also likes gameplay in their games.

 

[Maxperson]

I'd suggest that you are anomalously unsuitable audience for the whole horror genre. Most people can feel scared by various forms of horror fiction, and the entire appeal of the genre is based on that.

I can't fathom why. We KNOW it's not real. How could it scare someone?

Also, from the other posters in this thread, it hardly seems like I'm an anomaly here. They also question the fear aspect.

 

[pemerton]

This is probably group and system dependant. I'll often outright narrate changes in my characters priorities happening, normally as part of outcome narration. I think it's so group dependant because of how these priorities are established in group understanding in the first place and how attentive the group is to them. It's one thing I've noticed a lot of OC players are good at. Of course certain systems like Burning Wheel or Dungeon World flat out have you write them down.

Although I've still got a nagging feeling we might be talking past each other given the Burning Wheel example. Do you establish something akin to beliefs in all games, even if they're not formalised? I think I do for most of them.

I don't know if I'm following your account of "priorities".

If a character flees in fear (whether due to a failed Steel test in BW, or a failed morale check in Traveller, or whatever) I am assuming that we are now saying their priority has changed - to saving themself - and we are seeing what follows from that change in priority. In other words, I am taking it that priority = motivation for action. I took this to follow from the idea that declaring an action - say, in a system that doesn't use Steel or morale, declaring that my PC flees in terror - expresses a characters priorities.

But in BW this wouldn't necessarily require rewriting a Belief. (Contrast to Pendragon, where it would likely require adjusting the balance between Valorous/Cowardly.) In BW Beliefs are principles/commitments/ideals, but not necessarily actual motivations - it's up to the player to choose how to incorporate or respond to their Beliefs in the motivations they attribute to their PCs.

So when I asked about changing priorities, I was asking about - say - how a player would decide that now is the time that their brave, or ruthless, or etc, character decides to hesitate/run away/etc. (In the Cthulhu Dark case, it was a normally sensible character - a butler - screaming in panic and calming his nerves by drinking laudanum.)

 

[thefutilist]

So when I asked about changing priorities, I was asking about - say - how a player would decide that now is the time that their brave, or ruthless, or etc, character decides to hesitate/run away/etc. (In the Cthulhu Dark case, it was a normally sensible character - a butler - screaming in panic and calming his nerves by drinking laudanum.)

I'm going to cop out and say it depends on the game. I'm not that familiar with Cthulhu dark but based on the source material my first instinct is to treat fear as a Chthonic force, something imposed upon the character. So the GM calling for a san check would make a lot of sense.

If I was writing a cosmic horror game I'd probably have the player choose when something is mind breaking but it's not the type of mechanic that would travel well across systems.

In my general day to day roleplay I tend to relegate fear to color and I probably only describe it when the character is going into tense situations. Otherwise my characters don't do stuff because they're scared, they don't do something because they value something else more highly.

 

[GrimCo]

So horror is a difficult genre to run, but I have never found these sort of sanity mechanics to improve it. Horror to work at all requires that the players buy into it and try to take it seriously. It also requires a lot from the GM, they really need to be good at describing things in a way that evokes the right atmosphere. And it absolutely requires that the players genuinely get at least a bit scared, like if watching a horror film. None of this really is enhanced by mechanics, quite the opposite. Numbers are not scary (except perhaps irrational numbers,) but well described things when the atmosphere is right quite easily can be. You don't want disturb the flow by evoking the rules, calculating the mental hit points etc. Just focus on the fiction. I find horror the be the genre that most benefits from running it basically freeform.

Yeah, this is how I feel about it, too. If I'm not horrified, but merely describing the actions that I think a horrified character would take, then I'm not really all that engaged.

But...as has been revealed in this thread at least forty times already...that's exactly the kind of play experience that others enjoy.

I'd rather the hair on my own arms was actually standing up.

You both are right, for your preferred style, horror is hard. It's not about making characters scared, anxious, uncomfortable. It's about evoking those emotions in players. To do it, imho, you need to know players and know them good, then aim for weak spots, like if you know someone is arachnophobic irl, you go with very nice, detailed and evocative descriptions of spiders. As Crimson said, best run it freeform. My only gripe is, if you run free form, there isn't much of a game element in it. It's just improv acting.

But, some people like their characters to be afraid or anxious, not themselves. They wanna enjoy positive emotions associated with playing fun game in which their character feels negative emotions. For that kind of play, you need rules and part of that is usually relinquishing some of that player agency.

 

[pemerton]

If I'm not horrified, but merely describing the actions that I think a horrified character would take, then I'm not really all that engaged.

for your preferred style, horror is hard. It's not about making characters scared, anxious, uncomfortable. It's about evoking those emotions in players. To do it, imho, you need to know players and know them good, then aim for weak spots, like if you know someone is arachnophobic irl, you go with very nice, detailed and evocative descriptions of spiders. As Crimson said, best run it freeform. My only gripe is, if you run free form, there isn't much of a game element in it. It's just improv acting.

If the player is actually scared, then they're not acting!

Speaking just for myself, part of what is involved in roleplaying as I see it is an ability to immerse in a character who is not me. If I'm playing a CoC-type game, and the rules tell me that my PC is spooked or panicked or afflicted with nervous hallucinations or whatever, then part of being a good roleplayer is taking that onboard and incorporating it into my understanding of, and portrayal of, my character.

 

[bsss]

To do it, imho, you need to know players and know them good, then aim for weak spots, like if you know someone is arachnophobic irl, you go with very nice, detailed and evocative descriptions of spiders.

Additionally, at a table that cares about consent, triggering a phobia to the point of anxiety or fear would probably be off the table, further limiting the options in this playstyle that favors player emotion over character roleplaying. I don't even think a player should ever be made truly uncomfortable intentionally in a game, instead play should only dance on the edge of it within the confines of consent (in which case, fear or whatever is still not truly invoked) or use game mechanics and other acting tools to emulate it in character (in which case horror mechanics are on the table).

 

[Crimson Longinus]

You both are right, for your preferred style, horror is hard. It's not about making characters scared, anxious, uncomfortable. It's about evoking those emotions in players. To do it, imho, you need to know players and know them good, then aim for weak spots, like if you know someone is arachnophobic irl, you go with very nice, detailed and evocative descriptions of spiders. As Crimson said, best run it freeform. My only gripe is, if you run free form, there isn't much of a game element in it. It's just improv acting.

I would never use a players phobia like that. And yes, the GM is trying to evoke real emotions by creating an atmosphere, but in character immersion style the players feeling are modulated by their character. The player will feel different feelings depending on the character they are playing. This seems to be impossible to get to people who simply do not seem to have experience of this.

But, some people like their characters to be afraid or anxious, not themselves. They wanna enjoy positive emotions associated with playing fun game in which their character feels negative emotions. For that kind of play, you need rules and part of that is usually relinquishing some of that player agency.

But what is the point of playing, say a horror game, if it is not scary? Do people not want to be at least a little bit scared while watching a horror film too? Like I get playing just gamist hack and slash dungeon delve, that focuses more on tactics than the emotions, but I absolutely not get wanting to play a thing that is mainly about emotions without wanting to feel at least a shadow of those emotions. I just don't get it. I don't get what's the bloody point.

 

[bsss]

I just don't get it. I don't get what's the bloody point.

To have fun playing a game that includes the tropes of the desired genre without necessarily getting personally uncomfortable.