What is the CR for a 2nd level drow fighter? 4?!?

[Dracuwulf]

From my reading of this:

Level Adjustment
This line is included in the entries of creatures suitable for use as player characters or as cohorts (usually creatures with Intelligence scores of at least 3 and possessing opposable thumbs). Add this number to the creature’s total Hit Dice, including class levels, to get the creature’s effective character level (ECL). A character’s ECL affects the experience the character earns, the amount of experience the character must have before gaining a new level, and the character’s starting equipment.


It seems that a drow (which has level adjustment +2) being of 2nd level, would have a CR of 4? is that correct? It seems a bit high?? a 2nd level character having the same CR as a Dire Boar??

 

[Droid101]

Level adjustment (LA) is not the same as Challenge rating (CR). Some creatures, while not that difficult for the PCs to overcome, would be exceedingly powerful as a PC himself. I believe a drow has CR equal to its hit die. Check the Monster Manual entry.

 

[Sejs]

A) Not all CRs are created equal, particularly when templates or sub-races get involved.

B) Drow suck. A Drow Fighter/2 would get utterly reamed by a Non-LA Race Fighter/4 in the broad majority of fights. They're cupcakes. Spooky, subterrainian, spider-kissing cupcakes.

 

[Planesdragon]

B) Drow suck. A Drow Fighter/2 would get utterly reamed by a Non-LA Race Fighter/4 in the broad majority of fights. They're cupcakes. Spooky, subterrainian, spider-kissing cupcakes.

That's because the Drow is only CR 3 -- with poison.

A human fighter 4 and a drow fighter 2 would, in the course of a typical adventure, do about as much.

And if that drow got some other drow followers--well, an 8th level drow cleric leading ten 1st level drow fighters would destroy a 10th level human fighter leading ten 1st level human followers.

 

[Dracuwulf]

Level adjustment (LA) is not the same as Challenge rating (CR). Some creatures, while not that difficult for the PCs to overcome, would be exceedingly powerful as a PC himself. I believe a drow has CR equal to its hit die. Check the Monster Manual entry.

I thought ECL = CR? Isn't a level 10 fighter = CR 10?

 

[Liquidsabre]

Only for non-LA (core) race NPCs, when you start mixing in humanoid or monstrous races with LA, racial hit-dice, etc. it starts getting tricky. The MM states that when mixing classes with monsters/races that don't synergize (i.e. an ogre taking a level of wizard or a nymph taking levels of fighter) then the CR doesn't increase by +1 per level.

So where you'd find a Drow Fighter 2 might be a CR 3, a Drow Rogue 2 would most likely be a CR 4.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

B) Drow suck. A Drow Fighter/2 would get utterly reamed by a Non-LA Race Fighter/4 in the broad majority of fights. They're cupcakes. Spooky, subterrainian, spider-kissing cupcakes.

Sure. Now toss in a 2nd-level wizard trying to charm each in turn. Now turn out the lights. Now have each of them try to communicate in Undercommon.

Drow don't suck. Pretty much the only people who think drow suck are people who can't imagine any way to compare characters other than by straight-up combat.

 

[dcollins]

It seems that a drow (which has level adjustment +2) being of 2nd level, would have a CR of 4? is that correct?

From the SRD for Elf, Drow:

—Level adjustment +2...
—Challenge Rating: Drow with levels in NPC classes have a CR equal to their character level. Drow with levels in PC classes have a CR equal to their character level +1.

A drow of 2nd-level of some PHB class (fighter, wizard, etc.) would be:
- ECL 4, CR 3

A drow 2nd-level of some NPC class (warrior, etc.) would be:
- ECL 4, CR 2

As a side note, all PHB races have Level Adjusment of +0 and CR adjustment of +0, so in those core cases the ECL and CR are simply the same as the class level.

 

[Sejs]

Sure. Now toss in a 2nd-level wizard trying to charm each in turn. Now turn out the lights. Now have each of them try to communicate in Undercommon.

Drow don't suck. Pretty much the only people who think drow suck are people who can't imagine any way to compare characters other than by straight-up combat.

Gee is that what my problem is? Well thank goodness you came along and were able to point it out to me, otherwise I might never have known.

Look, the point was a drow vs an equally leveled opponent of the same class, not the drow and his buddy and his pet cockatoo all wearing party hats in the underdark in situation that heavily favors them vs an opponent who is equal level to one of them.

I mean honestly, does this stuff really get you so spun up that you have come out guns blazing?

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I mean honestly, does this stuff really get you so spun up that you have come out guns blazing?

"Guns blazing"? Buh?


Jeff