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What is the lowest damage Fireball could deal where you would still prep/use it?
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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8817757" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>Needing to change a crunchy rogue above level five or six who puts in effort to be crunchy for a level 5 rogue who does not in order to make the point is pretty much pointing a spotlight at the exception that proves the norm of it not being a big deal. This started about how specifically there's no fear of hitting <strong>crunchy</strong> types the GM is pressured to attack not squishy types that the GM would get labeled a killer GM if they went after the squishy pc too seriously. Specifically at higher levels than five or six.</p><p></p><p> studded leather(12ac) ++4 or 5 from dex possible +2 from a shield possible +1 from each of things like defensive fighting style +1 armor +1 shield +1 ring of protection +1 cloak of protection ranging from a crunchy PC with an ac of 18-24. The veteran that you mention has a +5 to hit & needs to roll a 13 or better to hit off the shelf non magic gear. It does not have the tohit needed to <em>reliably</em> hit a PC who has not even improved upon nonmagical mundane gear let alone one who put in some effort. </p><p></p><p>The veteran would indeed have advantage on attacks <em>after</em> the rogue is down, but it does an average of 7 6 & 5 on its attacks for a total of 18 average <em>if</em> it rolls 13 or better on each against the hypothetical 30hp rogue who still has 12 HP & should be capable of taking two more average attacks from a second veteran if all f<em>ive</em> of those attacks were a 13 or better. After the veterans made <em>five</em> d20 rolls of 13 or better to drop the fireballed rogue who failed the dex save they still need to make two successful attacks with advantage before another player can provide the rogue with any healing. If the group consists of 3-4 level 7 players the bare minimum number of veterans(3) required to kill a fireballed rogue who failed the dex save is <em>only</em> a medium or hard encounter not deadly or lethal</p><p></p><p>Add to that, the veteran you mention has a measly 17 ac 58 hp and +1 dex with no save proficiencies at all . A 28 point fireball will being it to 30hp. It's not hard for the group to deal 30hp when the rogue alone can average 15-20 or easy. In order for players to hit a 17ac with 18 in their prime attribute, a starting +0 weapon & level 5-8's +3 proficiency bonus they need to roll a ten or better on a d20 where the average is ten point five. </p><p></p><p>You have not made a case for a serious threat to the crunchy PCs because the veteran needs a 13 or better to hit +0 nonmagical gear on each of those possible three attacks. If the group is too small to both burn them down <em>and</em> toss a heal of some form on that rogue so the rogue can disengage & switch to ranged attacks then it's pretty much an encounter that swaps the LMOP opening goblins with veterans & playing it out the rocks fall scenario with a twist at level 5.</p><p></p><p>Fireball doesn't bounce off walls or anything so in a situation where it might matter like your exception the caster can just position it off to the side or do things like hold their cast till the rogue can scoot around a bit or cunning action disengage like just about any rogue not trying to be the tank is going to do most rounds.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8817757, member: 93670"] Needing to change a crunchy rogue above level five or six who puts in effort to be crunchy for a level 5 rogue who does not in order to make the point is pretty much pointing a spotlight at the exception that proves the norm of it not being a big deal. This started about how specifically there's no fear of hitting [B]crunchy[/B] types the GM is pressured to attack not squishy types that the GM would get labeled a killer GM if they went after the squishy pc too seriously. Specifically at higher levels than five or six. studded leather(12ac) ++4 or 5 from dex possible +2 from a shield possible +1 from each of things like defensive fighting style +1 armor +1 shield +1 ring of protection +1 cloak of protection ranging from a crunchy PC with an ac of 18-24. The veteran that you mention has a +5 to hit & needs to roll a 13 or better to hit off the shelf non magic gear. It does not have the tohit needed to [I]reliably[/I] hit a PC who has not even improved upon nonmagical mundane gear let alone one who put in some effort. The veteran would indeed have advantage on attacks [I]after[/I] the rogue is down, but it does an average of 7 6 & 5 on its attacks for a total of 18 average [I]if[/I] it rolls 13 or better on each against the hypothetical 30hp rogue who still has 12 HP & should be capable of taking two more average attacks from a second veteran if all f[I]ive[/I] of those attacks were a 13 or better. After the veterans made [I]five[/I] d20 rolls of 13 or better to drop the fireballed rogue who failed the dex save they still need to make two successful attacks with advantage before another player can provide the rogue with any healing. If the group consists of 3-4 level 7 players the bare minimum number of veterans(3) required to kill a fireballed rogue who failed the dex save is [I]only[/I] a medium or hard encounter not deadly or lethal Add to that, the veteran you mention has a measly 17 ac 58 hp and +1 dex with no save proficiencies at all . A 28 point fireball will being it to 30hp. It's not hard for the group to deal 30hp when the rogue alone can average 15-20 or easy. In order for players to hit a 17ac with 18 in their prime attribute, a starting +0 weapon & level 5-8's +3 proficiency bonus they need to roll a ten or better on a d20 where the average is ten point five. You have not made a case for a serious threat to the crunchy PCs because the veteran needs a 13 or better to hit +0 nonmagical gear on each of those possible three attacks. If the group is too small to both burn them down [I]and[/I] toss a heal of some form on that rogue so the rogue can disengage & switch to ranged attacks then it's pretty much an encounter that swaps the LMOP opening goblins with veterans & playing it out the rocks fall scenario with a twist at level 5. Fireball doesn't bounce off walls or anything so in a situation where it might matter like your exception the caster can just position it off to the side or do things like hold their cast till the rogue can scoot around a bit or cunning action disengage like just about any rogue not trying to be the tank is going to do most rounds. [/QUOTE]
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What is the lowest damage Fireball could deal where you would still prep/use it?
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