D&D General What is the right amount of Classes for Dungeons and Dragons?

[steeldragons]

Final Fantasy? Pokemon?

Pet classes and minion-mancer classes have been popular for a long time.

I was just making a "funny." But since it's been volleyed...

I'm well aware. And the inclusion of what video -or other genres- have as characters shoehorned into Dungeons & Dragons classes pretty much never works.

If one "wants" a Pokemon...go play Pokemon. If you want a character that is like X-Coolio-dude in Y-anime video game...the games are there to go enjoy.

If you want to play a "summoner" style caster, play a mage/wizard/sorcerer/necromancer specialist/warlock/whatever best suits your flavor preference, and choose to pick/use conjuration spells. That's what D&D has/can do.

D&D doesn't need a "Summoner/minion-mancer"(or so-called "Pet" class, for that matter) just because Paizo/Pathfinder has one.

D&D trying to do what all other fantasy RPG genres/games may be doing/trying/presenting is -and has been repeatedly shown to be - a fool's errand on a road to failure.

Stop trying to make D&D include what other things are. BE D&D!

 

[TwoSix]

In Pokemon, the summoner has no actions. They just stand back and declare actions for their summon.

In video games, programming and AI does a lot of the heavy lifting for the action economy, but the AI of minions (and the lag they cause) is often a sore spot for a lot of games and players of those games.

Sure.

I just think it's pretty much nonnegotiable that for the TTRPG summoner trope to have the right "feel", the summoned entities must be somewhat independent. Having their own health pool, and independent characteristics, and generally mechanically behaving like an NPC. Refluffing fog cloud as a steam mephit isn't a summon. Despite the flavor, spirit guardians is not a summon.

I think a class built around a pet/eidolon and using spells like the various Tasha's summoning spells is very workable, but it can't just be a full caster subclass. It would have to be built from the ground up.

 

[CreamCloud0]

In Pokemon, the summoner has no actions. They just stand back and declare actions for their summon.

yeah, cause the battles are framed in a different way, creature vs creature, but that doesn't eliminate the fantasy of being the person directing a trained creature from still being a thing in DnD.

 

[Clint_L]

I wouldn't say it's a "right" amount, and I think 12 is a good number, but I would cut it to eight if I had so change something: Fighter, Cleric, Magic-User, Rogue, Paladin, Bard, Druid and Monk. It covers almost any archetype and each class is distinct enough from others. (maybe the paladin can go...)

Druid, too. It’s easy to imagine Druid as a subclass of cleric and paladin as a subclass of fighter. But I would add artificer. It’s distinct enough.

 

[TwoSix]

D&D trying to do what all other fantasy RPG genres/games may be doing/trying/presenting is -and has been repeatedly shown to be - a fool's errand on a road to failure.

Stop trying to make D&D include what other things are. BE D&D!

That's a really shiny, well-preserved gate. You've done a fine job maintaining and keeping it.

 

[steeldragons]

That's a really shiny, well-preserved gate. You've done a fine job maintaining and keeping it.

Thank you! I've worked really hard on the polish and buffing.

 

[Vaalingrade]

In Pokemon, the summoner has no actions. They just stand back and declare actions for their summon.

Not in the show.

 

[Vaalingrade]

D&D trying to do what all other fantasy RPG genres/games may be doing/trying/presenting is -and has been repeatedly shown to be - a fool's errand on a road to failure.

Stop trying to make D&D include what other things are. BE D&D!

So limited to just trying to be the pop culture of the 70's and early 80's? Trapped forever with a limited and outdated pallete with which to paint, rapidly losing relevant and relatability to modern audiences until it is cast aside by its parent company and locked away in the IP vault where no one will be able to do anything with it for the next 70+ years?

Okay then.

 

[steeldragons]

So limited to just trying to be the pop culture of the 70's and early 80's? Trapped forever with a limited and outdated pallete with which to paint, rapidly losing relevant and relatability to modern audiences until it is cast aside by its parent company and locked away in the IP vault where no one will be able to do anything with it for the next 70+ years?

Okay then.

Rather than include a Pokemon class?

Yes. A thousand times, yes!

 

[CreamCloud0]

Not in the show.

even in the show they kinda do, not compared to anything what they might do in DnD, ash ketchum isn't attacking something with a sword while pikachu flanks it.

but i don't think that that's the part of the experience people are asking for when they compare a summoner to a pokemon trainer.