D&D General What is the right amount of Classes for Dungeons and Dragons?

[Vaalingrade]

Rather than include a Pokemon class?

Yes. A thousand times, yes!

Then the baby shall be cut in half.

Edit: But seriously, it's kind of messed up to prefer killing the franchise to prevent some people from getting the optional class they want. That's a pretty amazing level of spite.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Rather than include a Pokemon class?

so, what's the actual issue for you with there being a class based around having a group of creatures your character can call upon, a beastmaster+

 

[steeldragons]

Then the baby shall be cut in half.

Edit: But seriously, it's kind of messed up to prefer killing the franchise to prevent some people from getting the optional class they want. That's a pretty amazing level of spite.

I've got a lot going on. Spite is basically oxygen for getting through the day, at this point.

My responses are only half serious. Of course I don't want the franchise to die over a bs class concept.

My loathing of Pokemon, however, is 100% real/sincere.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Any my hatred for Lovecraft surely eclipses that, but I'm not begrudging people who want to play Aberrant Minds or GoOlocks. I just... like don't play them?

 

[Aldarc]

I just think it's pretty much nonnegotiable that for the TTRPG summoner trope to have the right "feel", the summoned entities must be somewhat independent. Having their own health pool, and independent characteristics, and generally mechanically behaving like an NPC. Refluffing fog cloud as a steam mephit isn't a summon. Despite the flavor, spirit guardians is not a summon.

I disagree on this point, and I think that it's this sort of insistence that has held back a lot of summoning in the game. But I didn't say that a summon can't have HP, just that it's not required IMHO, that there are other ways to do summoning in a game. For example, the Arcanist in Fabula Ultima is the summoner class; however, its summons do not use HP.

I think a class built around a pet/eidolon and using spells like the various Tasha's summoning spells is very workable, but it can't just be a full caster subclass. It would have to be built from the ground up.

The Tasha's Summoning Spells are not much different from Call Lightning. Call Lightning does get a stat block, but it's a spell that operates much the same. Concentration. Duration. Command to attack.

 

[TwoSix]

I disagree on this point, and I think that it's this sort of insistence that has held back a lot of summoning in the game. But I didn't say that a summon can't have HP, just that it's not required IMHO, that there are other ways to do summoning in a game. For example, the Arcanist in Fabula Ultima is the summoner class; however, its summons do not use HP.

I would agree there are different ways of doing summons. I mean, contrast Rydia's summons in FF4 with magicite crystals teaching spells in FF6 versus the Summoner job in FF14. And that's all within the same franchise!

And FU's Arcanist, with the vestige-style "spirit bonding", is definitely another flavor of summoning that needs more support.

The Tasha's Summoning Spells are not much different from Call Lightning. Call Lightning does get a stat block, but it's a spell that operates much the same. Concentration. Duration. Command to attack.

I can see that, but I would argue the Call Lightning is extremely distinct from having a Pikachu, even if both result in the enemy taking a bunch of lightning damage.

 

[TwoSix]

I've got a lot going on. Spite is basically oxygen for getting through the day, at this point.

My responses are only half serious. Of course I don't want the franchise to die over a bs class concept.

My loathing of Pokemon, however, is 100% real/sincere.

So I take it that you don't want to be the very best, like no one ever was?

That to catch them is not your real test, to train them is not your cause?

 

[steeldragons]

So I take it that you don't want to be the very best, like no one ever was?

That to catch them is not your real test, to train them is not your cause?

You know me too well/read me like a book.

I do not. Not in the slightest.

 

[Aldarc]

I can see that, but I would argue the Call Lightning is extremely distinct from having a Pikachu, even if both result in the enemy taking a bunch of lightning damage.

This unfairly moves the field posts regarding what I was originally responding to.

 

[TwoSix]

This unfairly moves the field posts regarding what I was originally responding to.

My argument is simply that a class designed with only abilities similar to Call Lightning would be insufficient, to my mind, to fulfill the Summoner trope, even if those abilities were skinned as summoning creatures.

Just like I would say that the Arcanist class in FU is insufficient to fill the trope space; fortunately, Wayfarer and Faithful Companion fill that gap for summoner characters.