Level Up (A5E) What is the true "value" of improved vision types & replacements

I would go simple and have just:

Darkvision
Superior Darkvison (which comes with sunlight blindness)
Low Light vision/Elf-vision (see better in low light and bright light)
"Heat Vision" (can see living beings and heat sources in darkness)

Only the underground and truly nocturnal races should get darkvision. And only purely underground or Underdark races get the superior version.

All the rest should get "low light" and have to hold torches or cast light in complete darkness.
I mainly play theater of the mind style.

I must emphasize how odious "low light vision" is as a mechanic.

Either there is a lightsource thus everything is bright, or there isnt thus everything is dark.

There is no room for a needlessly complicating gratuitous mechanic.
 

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Minigiant

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Supporter
I mainly play theater of the mind style.

I must emphasize how odious "low light vision" is as a mechanic.

Either there is a lightsource thus everything is bright, or there isnt thus everything is dark.

There is no room for a needlessly complicating gratuitous mechanic.

I prefer Elfsight or Elfvision.
 


How about, anyone who trains in the Perception skill automatically ignores the penalty from low light.

Thus cats have Perception and (most?) elves have Perception.

So, low light is never a problem.

Compare historical ninja training to operate in low light conditions for stealth.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
I think I'd just get rid of Darkvision completely before making it a cantrip. If the goal is to just make it possible for everybody to have it, what's the point of it?

Upon further reflection (and reading comments) I do think my suggestion of differentiating underground vs. outdoor darkvision by the light source (torchlight vs. starlight) for example, while thematically appropriate, is an unnecessary level of complexity, and is just begging for annoying edge cases. (Which is Dancing Lights?). So I think what I would do is just make Darkvision let you treat dim light as bright light, across the board.

Tables that don't pay attention to the radius of light sources, or the difference between bright and dim light, wouldn't see any benefit, but they're already ignoring some of the rules anyway. I'm guessing those same tables also aren't imposing disadvantage to Perception checks that rely on sight when characters are using Darkvision.

My sense is that a lot of people like Darkvision because it lets everybody stop worrying about light sources, including the issue of having a free hand to hold a lantern or torch.* (In a campaign I'm playing in now I paid the 50g to have continual flame cast on my sword.) But I think the lighting rules in the game add depth and tactical complexity, if you take the time to incorporate them.

One thing I like about VTTs is that, used correctly, they force you to think about it. When a player says, "I put the lantern down and draw my sword!" the DM can remove the light source from the character and make it stationary on the map. It really does add a whole new dimension to combats.

*DMs who feel this way can just decide that their dungeons have ambient lighting...torch sconces, glowing fungi, whatever.
 


Not a little bit?
Just a little bit of bookkeeping?
A special vision for the 50 versions of elf
This kind of bookkeeping is unfriendly to theater of the mind style.

Theater of the mind hates calculating distances.

Thus a lightsource is either present or not.

To calculate the radius of a lightsource often creates confusion, as each player imagines the scenario slightly differently.

No, to any kind of measurement.

Besides, "nightvision" is something cats and other nocturnal animals have. It seems horrbily gratutious and convoluted to invent a mechanic for illumination, that only applies to one race. And if Darkvision is a cantrip, then it is all moot anyway.
 
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G

Guest 6801328

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This kind of bookkeeping is unfriendly to theater of the mind style.

Theater of the mind hates calculating distances.

Thus a lightsource is either present or not.

To calculate the radius of a lightsource often creates confusion, as each player imagines the scenario slightly differently.

No, to any kind of measurement.

Besides, "nightvision" is something cats and other nocturnal animals have. It seems horrbily gratutious and convoluted to invent a mechanic for illumination, that only applies to one race.

Yeah, for TotM I get that. You can still have the darkness/dim/bright categories without radii, though.

I'll point out that even cats and other nocturnal animals can't see in total darkness.
 

Yeah, for TotM I get that. You can still have the darkness/dim/bright categories without radii, though.

I'll point out that even cats and other nocturnal animals can't see in total darkness.
Yeah, I do. But "dim" almost never happens during gameplay. Either the party has a lightsource, or darkvision.

A mechanic devoted to "dim" light, would be an infuriating, pointless, waste.

For those corner cases such as cats, let Perception training ignore penalties from dim light.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
This kind of bookkeeping is unfriendly to theater of the mind style.

Theater of the mind hates calculating distances.

Thus a lightsource is either present or not.

To calculate the radius of a lightsource often creates confusion, as each player imagines the scenario slightly differently.

No, to any kind of measurement.

Besides, "nightvision" is something cats and other nocturnal animals have. It seems horrbily gratutious and convoluted to invent a mechanic for illumination, that only applies to one race. And if Darkvision is a cantrip, then it is all moot anyway.

Yea, the ranges for it are a big problem for anything but the most mechanical & simulationist tactical grid map because they don't map to anything meaningful. Even with a vtt it can be awkward to narrate because nothing is pegged to those ranges. I think a lot of the contrived feeling is that it's all pegged to ho vision works for a nightblind human & the darkvision having nonscout individual is still effectively no different. I blame the fact that darkvision does not apply to anything else that would logically accompany having bet
Yeah, I do. But "dim" almost never happens during gameplay. Either the party has a lightsource, or not.

A mechanic devoted to "dim" light, would be an infuriating, pointless, waste.
That's why I use a goodlight to shed a wide area of dim light, it gives a basically useless light to a human & an awesome light to everyone else that's probably scattered around on the walls if darkvision having races live there.
 

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