Level Up (A5E) What is the vision of the high level fighter?

[DND_Reborn]

Lets just clarify a few things. You have a preference for non-high level games, because you believe that tames down spellcasters to keep them from dominating play? You also refuse to accept mystic-y fighters.until past level 20?

Could you please then give some ideas for what the high (but not post-20) fighter could contribute to a party outside combat that would be as useful as the contribution that the spellcasters make? That you personally would find acceptable.
It may be that there is nothing, and we will have to accept that you just don't have anything constructive to offer the thread. But you've come up with interesting stuff before, so please take a shot.

First, thank you for the compliment. I know a lot of the stuff I come up with isn't for the majority of players, but I hope it helps some.

First, building off of some of the points others have made. I think adding (again, for lack of a better term) prestige subclasses at level 12 would help. For one thing, it adds more choices to the character, which many players seem to want. Prestige features could be at 12th, 16th, and 19th, mirroring the ASI levels, so they would be uniform across all classes. Putting them at other levels could certainly work as well.

Second, your focus is on out of combat. In combat isn't as hard, so I'll focus on a couple features for exploration and social that IMO could represent high level fighters.

These examples might work for a Warlord or Fighter-Lord-type fighter. These idea could affect your allies, or "forces", or something. The wording needs work, but you'll get the idea. Certain features might be once per short or long rest, or have multiple uses, or whatever. That would need some thinking over.

Inspired March. Your presence to those around you inspires them to push themselves further than they could go alone. Any creatures within 500 feet of you that you choose have their travel pace doubled and gain advantage on Constitution saving throws to resist exhaustion when participating in a Forced March. This benefit lasts until the creatures finish a long rest.

Search and Destroy. Your ability to find your enemy is unmatched. When forces under your command make Wisdom (Perception) checks to find a hidden creature, they can use your proficiency bonus instead of their own. Targets gain no bonus to their Dexterity (Stealth) checks due to half or three-quarters cover. If you engage in combat against a discovered target, the target has disadvantage on its initiative roll.

For social, perhaps something like:

Pure Awesomeness. (Sorry, just finished watching Kung-Fu Panda ) When you make a Charisma (Persuasion) check to change the attitude of creatures within 120 feet of you, creatures have the Charmed condition if they fail a Wisdom save. The DC equals 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier. You can just this feature a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier and regain all spent uses when you finish a short or long rest.

Commanding Presence. When you use give creatures orders, they tend to obey you. The creature must make a Wisdom saving throw follow your order as if affected by a Suggestion spell. The DC equals 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier. You can just this feature a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier and regain all spent uses when you finish a short or long rest.

So, those are just some quick thoughts. While something like Commanding Presence mimics magic, it isn't magic. The creature isn't actually charmed, which is why I wrote "as if affected by". The idea being you are so forceful in your commands that people seem compelled to obey them. Others might argue it is a fine line, but there are people IRL which seem to have this impact on others.

That's all I got for now? Thoughts?

 

[Garthanos]

Christmas Tree

aka Perseus or the Atlantean Soldier

 

[Stalker0]

Half the cast of Three Kingdoms, certainly. The Illiad, but there's some divine intervention going on in that story.

I keep hearing the Illiad as an example of high level adventuring. In my head, I can’t see it bring higher than 10th level or so, but I don't know the story as well as others. What in the Iliad would showcase the craziest you see st like 15th level or so.

 

[Lylandra]

I really see the "leader type" / charismatic fighter dabbling into bard territory and I don't think that this is a bad idea. They both fall into the niche of being inspirational, but where the bard uses magic and song and artistry, the leader fighter uses rhetoric, deeds and presence. In previous editions, this could have been a problem, but the 5e bard is so much a spellcaster that it doesn't hurt the class to have one competitor in that field.

Just some random thoughts:

• Maybe make the fighter grant inspiration?
• let the fighter have some means of giving advantage to other party members (in and out of combat)
• some stuff with intimidation. Death stare. Command.
• grant action surges
• Diplomacy. Something with respect. Don't know... but fighter types tend to be the "leaders" of their teams, especially if there is no paladin available

Fighters in general:

• Some sort of Lucky feat, called "too awesome to fail" which they can use on skills and saves
• Don't know id this fits, but "feat of legend" - make one called nat20 / day. Maybe useable on skills only.

 

[Amhain]

I really see the "leader type" / charismatic fighter dabbling into bard territory and I don't think that this is a bad idea. They both fall into the niche of being inspirational, but where the bard uses magic and song and artistry, the leader fighter uses rhetoric, deeds and presence. In previous editions, this could have been a problem, but the 5e bard is so much a spellcaster that it doesn't hurt the class to have one competitor in that field.

Just some random thoughts:

• Maybe make the fighter grant inspiration?
• let the fighter have some means of giving advantage to other party members (in and out of combat)
• some stuff with intimidation. Death stare. Command.
• grant action surges
• Diplomacy. Something with respect. Don't know... but fighter types tend to be the "leaders" of their teams, especially if there is no paladin available

Fighters in general:

• Some sort of Lucky feat, called "too awesome to fail" which they can use on skills and saves
• Don't know id this fits, but "feat of legend" - make one called nat20 / day. Maybe useable on skills only.

This is sounding a lot like what the Warlord is likely going to wind up being, if it resembles the 4th edition class it's named after.

 

[KnightOfTheGrey]

I keep hearing the Illiad as an example of high level adventuring. In my head, I can’t see it bring higher than 10th level or so, but I don't know the story as well as others. What in the Iliad would showcase the craziest you see st like 15th level or so.

It's sort of hard to say, really; the difficulty with "fighters" is that a high-level fighter does very much the same kinds of things as a low-level fighter. I bring up Three Kingdoms and the Illiad because the narrative presents folks like Achilles and Guan Yu as epic heroes that are the pinnacle of fighting prowess running about slaughtering hordes of lesser folks, and because if they're not high-level then I don't know what is.

 

[Garthanos]

Inspired March. Your presence to those around you inspires them to push themselves further than they could go alone. Any creatures within 500 feet of you that you choose have their travel pace doubled and gain advantage on Constitution saving throws to resist exhaustion when participating in a Forced March. This benefit lasts until the creatures finish a long rest.

That's all I got for now? Thoughts?

It is about appropriate for the lower tier and maybe low heroic tier (and may be the best you can get out normal joes)
Here is my thought include scaling so around 7 to 10, allow other creatures who are themselves level 7 to 10 to pump it up to 3x and at 11 to 14 call it 4x and at 15+ 5x you are basically full sprint almost like Gilgamesh. Due to mounts it will usually be pushing heroic class mounts. And your Griffon being fricken awesomely fast without dying on you will be fun anyway.

 

[Garthanos]

That's all I got for now? Thoughts?

Did you consider an intimidation one basically the Chainmail Hero by his mere presence was able to route hordes of enemies from the field. It's as much a generic fighter AND warlord function. You can shake their nerves so they make mistakes too.. its not just an all or nothing thing.

 

[Garthanos]

A passive version the Champion might like enemies facing him and his allies get a critical failure range representing the impact of his presence (insert wacky fun table to screw with bad guys vividly here)

 

[Stalker0]

I bring up Three Kingdoms and the Illiad because the narrative presents folks like Achilles and Guan Yu as epic heroes that are the pinnacle of fighting prowess running about slaughtering hordes of lesser folks, and because if they're not high-level then I don't know what is.

I think this actually reflects another part of the problem, a lot of people don’t know what high level looks like, as most fantasy fiction isn’t that high.

I once again point to avengers and other marvel movies, as those may be some of the best narrative inspiration for 11th+ level adventuring.

magics that can bend space and time, dealing with “world ending threats” in a day, going against aliens and Monsters unstoppable to all but fellow super heroes... those movies have a lot of the threat I would escribe to high level dnd, so probably a group like the avengers is one of the closest narrative equivalents to high level play.

So with in mind, Thor is probably the best model of high level fighter we have in recent narratives.