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<blockquote data-quote="Wolv0rine" data-source="post: 4281194" data-attributes="member: 9045">The completely re-built from the ground up with a whole different concept in mind version of multiclassing that 4E offers is a bone in my craw that nothing the game designers could ever do (aside from kicking it to the curb wholesale) could alleviate for me.&nbsp; It's complete Epic Fail IMO.&nbsp; Every single complaint about the 3E multiclassing rules I ever remember hearing/reading where just a case of &quot;But...but...&nbsp; that means my character isn't as good at his original class as if he hadn't multiclassed!&quot;&nbsp; Well, friggin duh.&nbsp; That's how it SHOULD be.And, regardless of whether or not I'm the only one, I mourn the loss the PrCs, which I think were the single best idea 3E brought to the table.&nbsp; I don't think I ever played or designed with a group in all my years before 3E that didn't hate the steamroller-like class-bloat brought about by &quot;have a new idea for a more specialized class?&nbsp; Make a new base class!&quot;&nbsp; BD&amp;D, 1E, 2E...&nbsp; everyone I ever knew hated it, but it was &quot;The Way It Was Done&quot;, so we hated it but lived with it.&nbsp; 3E comes along and hands us a way to avoid base-class bloat with the concept of PrCs (and yes, there was PrC bloat, but PrCs are by definition different from base classes).&nbsp; And what does 4E do?&nbsp; Throw it out.Honestly, every read through the 3 core books strengthens my feeling that if I ever take part in a 4E game, I will have to take multiple, very hot, showers directly afterwards.&nbsp; Possibly with &quot;The Crying Game&quot; playing in the background.I'm sure the statment can be shot full of holes here and there, but I'd swear I at least always got the impression that every Edition of D&amp;D took the Ed. before it, twisted it a bit, changed it a bit, and build new wings on the old structure.&nbsp; This new edition seems to be more like they all gathered in a meeting room and said &quot;Okay, Rule #1 about 4E design is: There has never been an edition of D&amp;D before this edition.&nbsp; Okay, let's start.&quot;&nbsp; If people enjoy it, dandy, but I hope to the gods that 4E doesn't become SO popular that finding a non-4E group becomes effectively impossible.&nbsp; I swear I can't find anything I liked about 3E in 4E, or even hints of those parts.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Wolv0rine, post: 4281194, member: 9045"] The completely re-built from the ground up with a whole different concept in mind version of multiclassing that 4E offers is a bone in my craw that nothing the game designers could ever do (aside from kicking it to the curb wholesale) could alleviate for me. It's complete Epic Fail IMO. Every single complaint about the 3E multiclassing rules I ever remember hearing/reading where just a case of "But...but... that means my character isn't as good at his original class as if he hadn't multiclassed!" Well, friggin duh. That's how it SHOULD be. And, regardless of whether or not I'm the only one, I mourn the loss the PrCs, which I think were the single best idea 3E brought to the table. I don't think I ever played or designed with a group in all my years before 3E that didn't hate the steamroller-like class-bloat brought about by "have a new idea for a more specialized class? Make a new base class!" BD&D, 1E, 2E... everyone I ever knew hated it, but it was "The Way It Was Done", so we hated it but lived with it. 3E comes along and hands us a way to avoid base-class bloat with the concept of PrCs (and yes, there was PrC bloat, but PrCs are by definition different from base classes). And what does 4E do? Throw it out. Honestly, every read through the 3 core books strengthens my feeling that if I ever take part in a 4E game, I will have to take multiple, very hot, showers directly afterwards. Possibly with "The Crying Game" playing in the background. I'm sure the statment can be shot full of holes here and there, but I'd swear I at least always got the impression that every Edition of D&D took the Ed. before it, twisted it a bit, changed it a bit, and build new wings on the old structure. This new edition seems to be more like they all gathered in a meeting room and said "Okay, Rule #1 about 4E design is: There has never been an edition of D&D before this edition. Okay, let's start." If people enjoy it, dandy, but I hope to the gods that 4E doesn't become SO popular that finding a non-4E group becomes effectively impossible. I swear I can't find anything I [b]liked[/b] about 3E in 4E, or even hints of those parts. [/QUOTE]

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