D&D 5E What is your preferred level of play?

[Sacrosanct]

Their methods may be arcane but their achievements are only what mundane people can achieve.

What? This doesn't make sense

Only with HP as meat, which they patently are not. They must also reflect that highly skilled individuals are adept at not being hit as well as hitting more & harder.

Bottom line is that a 3rd level barbarian can take more punishment than a rhino can, no matter how you look at it. Damage resistance isn't "harder to be hit", it's "shrugging off blows that land". And a GW Barbarian also probably has a better AC and damage output than a rhino. So no, a "highly trained" regular real life person cannot take out a rhino in melee combat, or take as much punishment as a rhino. Nor can they take out a grizzly bear or similar.

I know gladiators did this but I can't find the details (they may have always had numbers in their favour)



They are all navy seals. Exceptional specimens but still "normal" in the sense they really exist. (Parkour & Backflips in general are things that seem to transcend anything I can imagine being able to do )

Navy seals aren't exceptional, but merely highly trained (by your categorization)? I've met several of them. They are very much what I'd consider the best of the best. The exceptional. The pinnacle of human achievement. So by your logic, that's level 5-9. Which makes them as tough as a large freaking dinosaur?

Sorry, but I don't know any human who is equivalent in melee combat as an allosaurus or ankylosaurus. When you look at what a level 1-4 PC can take out and/or do, they are very much the elite of what a normal person could do. In fact, I'd even posit that level 3 and 4 get into superhuman realms, because there's no way any human alive today can do what a level 3 or 4 fighter/barbarian can do.

 

[Pickles III]

What? This doesn't make sense

Sorry I will try to be more clear. A wizard 1 can summons bolts of energy at will but they are less powerful than a bow & arrow. Etc. The magical source is a flavour thing rather than a reality warping thing

Bottom line is that a 3rd level barbarian can take more punishment than a rhino can, no matter how you look at it. Damage resistance isn't "harder to be hit", it's "shrugging off blows that land". And a GW Barbarian also probably has a better AC and damage output than a rhino. So no, a "highly trained" regular real life person cannot take out a rhino in melee combat, or take as much punishment as a rhino. Nor can they take out a grizzly bear or similar.

That's largely a function of the abstraction of the D&D model. It does not reflect the ability of a highly trained fighter to avoid the attacks of a lumbering behemoth like a Rhino (look at Bullfighters or Cretan bull dancers for example who are rather hard to simulate in D&D). A whole chunk of D&D hit points reflect damage avoidance rather than mitigation. Rage being called out as soaking the damage does stretch this but it's mostly colour like the magic thing.

Navy seals aren't exceptional, but merely highly trained (by your categorization)? I've met several of them. They are very much what I'd consider the best of the best. The exceptional. The pinnacle of human achievement. So by your logic, that's level 5-9. Which makes them as tough as a large freaking dinosaur?

Exceptional as in top <1% of the population at what they do, Selection to be allowed to be trained is hard.
5-9th level characters are top <.001%, which is still far less than Olympians or Connor McGregors.

Sorry, but I don't know any human who is equivalent in melee combat as an allosaurus or ankylosaurus. When you look at what a level 1-4 PC can take out and/or do, they are very much the elite of what a normal person could do. In fact, I'd even posit that level 3 and 4 get into superhuman realms, because there's no way any human alive today can do what a level 3 or 4 fighter/barbarian can do.

I've no idea about dinosaurs as they are not around. Probably they should be able to eat anyone but if they are as legendarily dumb as I learned at primary school maybe not.

Dinosaurs & fighters are victims of bounded accuracy & of the rubbish XP/CR scaling though - there is no way any number of me armed with swords could beat Bruce lee & his nunchuks but he's AC 14 & I hit him 30% of the time.

Anyway I don't know why I am engaging with this*. D&D combat is incredibly abstract & unrealistic so any arguments are going to be pretty futile - like who would win in a fight between Superman & the Sliver Surfer.

*it's 'cos I am a bit drunk

 

[Kabouter Games]

who would win in a fight between Superman & the Sliver Surfer.

Clearly the Surfer. He'd philosophize Superman to sleep from boredom, then Galactus would devour the planet Supes was on.

[ducking and running]

 

[Sacrosanct]

Sorry I will try to be more clear. A wizard 1 can summons bolts of energy at will but they are less powerful than a bow & arrow. Etc. The magical source is a flavour thing rather than a reality warping thing

magic is more than just bolts of energy. It's also healing wounds, creating illusions, etc.

That's largely a function of the abstraction of the D&D model. It does not reflect the ability of a highly trained fighter to avoid the attacks of a lumbering behemoth like a Rhino (look at Bullfighters or Cretan bull dancers for example who are rather hard to simulate in D&D). A whole chunk of D&D hit points reflect damage avoidance rather than mitigation. Rage being called out as soaking the damage does stretch this but it's mostly colour like the magic thing.

...

Dinosaurs & fighters are victims of bounded accuracy & of the rubbish XP/CR scaling though - there is no way any number of me armed with swords could beat Bruce lee & his nunchuks but he's AC 14 & I hit him 30% of the time.

Wait a minute. So you're arguing "Here's what the equivalent level PCs would be in real life in D&D, but I'm not using any of D&D's mechanics to base this on."??? If you're going to argue that a certain level of PC in D&D and what abilities they have using D&D's mechanics, it makes zero sense to not use the mechanics of the game in your comparisons. You can't have it both ways. You can't argue that a real life person would be level X in D&D based off of the mechanics of what a level X PC is, and at the same time ignore the mechanics that determine what a bear, rhino, or dinosaur have. Otherwise your argument is essentially, "I just pulled these levels out of my butt, even though the mechanics don't support it at all."

The only way you can do this is, "What sort of abilities can an exceptional person do in real life, and how does that translate into the D&D world." If that D&D PC can do much more than your exceptional person in real life (like being as tough as a dinosaur), then that means they aren't that high of a level. Pretty simple. If a level 3 PC can do everything a Navy Seal can do, and a level 8 PC can do WAY more than a SEAL can do, why would you say a level 8 is the proper comparison?

 

[Blue]

1-5 plays a lot quicker in this edition than in others. 3rd is when you start to come into your own, up to about 14th. That's my sweet spot. I picked 5-9, but that really cuts off on both sides. Of course, we normally run multi-year campaigns, so it tends to be wider.

 

[steeldragons]

Perhaps we could just all recognize that some people's assumptions and preferences of gameplay are different than others and move on?

The poll, after all, is "What is your preferred level of play?"

...not "What is the only way to view character levels and interpret the game world to match what I think of them/the way I want them?"

 

[Kabouter Games]

Perhaps we could just all recognize that some people's assumptions and preferences of gameplay are different than others and move on?

The poll, after all, is "What is your preferred level of play?"

...not "What is the only way to view character levels and interpret the game world to match what I think of them/the way I want them?"

This right here. Couple of y'all are getting a little too "sound and fury," as a certain 20th-level Bard might put it.

-=-=-=-=-

I voted 5-9, because I assumed it was referencing a player's perspective. Before that and it's kind of "meh," along with some balance issues mentioned above. After that, I get kind of bored and end up wanting to try something new. I haven't played all the classes yet, and I'm itching to try a Warlock. Plus I agree with the sentiments about how the character interacts with the world changing around 10th level. I like having a survivable hero who doesn't feel compelled to save the planet. It's just comfortable, you know? Don't get me wrong - getting the call to save the world is kind of cool, but after you do it once, you get the t-shirt and you're all like, "What's left?"

When I'm DMing, I love watching fresh characters take their first toddling, tentative steps into the world. Then watching as players grow into their characters, going from pieces of paper with stats and RP aids scribbled thereon to the Red Hand Exploration Company (or whatever), with distinct personalities and self-defined roles in the group. That's pretty awesome.

 

[Jessica]

All of this is in my opinion, but levels 1 and 2 are boooooooooooooooooooooorrrrrriiiiinnnnnng. Some classes start getting eh alright at 3 and 4. Classes really start coming into their own around level 6 and 7. I haven't played much beyond that in 5e because either the next season starts or something comes up to keep me from playing regularly. I'm not looking forward to suffering through the first couple of levels when the next season starts for AL. :/

 

[bgbarcus]

As both DM and player I don't think characters get really interesting until 8th level. That's when they finally have enough power to take on serious threats and have been played long enough to have real personalities and stories. By 12th level they are a force to be reckoned with in the world rather than just local heroes and that makes them even more fun. I haven't taken a 5e group into the teen levels yet but it looks like the game will just keep getting better right up to 20th.

 

[S'mon]

Level 1-4 PCs don't usually have plate mail. And the average person doesn't have extra HP, a prof bonus, class skills (which include casting spells). There's nothing about a level 1-4 PC in D&D that should make you feel like an average person, unless you're playing in a game world where the average person can do superhuman tasks.

Level 1 PCs can feel quite a lot like average people in 5e, since the baseline NPCs have 2
hd (except Commoner). Your Cleric-1 may have less hp than the local Acolyte, for instance.
After that you're definitely above average.