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What kind of Sales can you expect from PDF?

jezter6 said:
I wouldn't mind CD's in stock of certain products, but it's like buying music CDs...many people waste money buying a full CD only to get one or two pieces they want to have. I think after a while (in such a small market like d20) that people would give up on buying CD's full of stuff they never wanted.

That will never happen. No way could I get the vendors to agree to me sending you our archive of products. Hell I wouldn't trust my best friend with that! Putting source files in the hands of FLGS probably isn't going to work...

jezter6 said:
I like the customized burn-on-demand. James, have you ever thought about that yourself? Again, saving me having to keep inventory of certain things in the store...but I'd have to wait for shipping which would suck.

Umm.. we have been offering this service for almost a year now :) Just pick out whatever you want to buy, then add this item to your cart and you'll get both the download links and a CD in the mail sent via Priority Mail!

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=112

James
 

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The demo hardcopy idea is a great one, and yet another reason for such a product to ally itself with a larger print publisher - who might want to arrange in addition to single sales adding such a cd into a backsleeve of another product as an "enhanced limited edition" copy or something.
 

rpghost said:


That will never happen. No way could I get the vendors to agree to me sending you our archive of products. Hell I wouldn't trust my best friend with that! Putting source files in the hands of FLGS probably isn't going to work...


James

Well, it's not much different than me going and ordering them for one of my customers without a credit card. I would have that file somewhere on my system. Of course, I wasn't talking about the whole stock of inventory...that's just crazy. And honestly, I wouldn't have the space for such a venture.

I was speaking more of CD's for my shelves that are for sale, like a malhavoc CD that would have all 3 boem's and banewarrens on it. That way they could get it all in one quick place. Something that would cost like $15.95 or something for the bundle. Not a bunch of CD's on my personal shelf with 50 cd's of PDF's for me to print/burn on demand.
 
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Twin Rose said:


Bastion Press usually has a print and a pretty version, one with borders and oner without... Their free "Norse Gods" PDF for example has both. I believe others rae going towards this model.

Dark Quest has done that for our last two releases... which means Natural 20 Press has done that for a few more <grin>
There are others.
Although it does increase the download size considerably. I think people are willing to accept the added size for the extra option.
 

jezter6 said:


Well, it's not much different than me going and ordering them for one of my customers without a credit card. I would have that file somewhere on my system. Of course, I wasn't talking about the whole stock of inventory...that's just crazy. And honestly, I wouldn't have the space for such a venture.

I was speaking more of CD's for my shelves that are for sale, like a malhavoc CD that would have all 3 boem's and banewarrens on it. That way they could get it all in one quick place.

Pretty much what I believe James had at Gen Con.
CDs from certain of the publishers and "fantasy assortment" type CDs from multiple publishers.
 

jezter6 said:
Well, it's not much different than me going and ordering them for one of my customers without a credit card. I would have that file somewhere on my system.

Way to many legal issues to deal with here... so I'm going going to touch that. There is a difference between giving permsion to do something and someone just doing it. There is also the fact that I don't own any rights to this material I sell - you'd have to have contracts with each publisher unless I do for the express purpose...

Oh, I forgot to mention, if you want to check out the quality of the POD service we're testing, you can do so here:

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=328

James
 
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At no point was I saying that I would or wanted to host the PDF's locally, just to clear that up. That's your job. :)

As for contacting them, hopefully some can venture into this post and see what they think of the bundles. I'm just not sure how well they would go, and not sure I would want to keep CD's like that on the shelf.

I do like the BoD/PoD option, and would rather work with you on something like that. That way we both make our share of the money, and the publisher gets their share too.
 

One of the biggest drawbacks to pdf sales is the direction of its marketing. It is almost entirely Internet driven sales. While I do not have the available data I would venture to say that a significant percentage of consumers do not use the Net to influence their buying decisions. To exceed the "usual and declining" sales trend, marketing techniques need to move beyond the box thinking. Pdf publishers have to be willing to try new ideas to make their products more visible and to reach a wider audience. I think some of the suggestions posted in this thread are good starts but the elusive "Eureka! That's it!" idea has yet to be found. The pdf publisher that figures that one out will be the envy of the gaming industry. ;)

PDF files have been something of a "strange beast" in the regards that they do have a certain conception among the general public of being not good enough for print. The variety in quality (with many being not so good) doesn't help with perception either.

The average consumer does not understand nor does he care about the investment required for a publisher to manufacture a product for print only to see the lion's share of his margins eaten up in operational and overhead expenses. The average consumer only looks at it in terms of his cost and his use. To him, a $5.00 pdf is a great deal until he has to print it out. Depending on the amount of color, borders, and excessive graphics present in the pdf, the customer may find that printing that pdf may very well drain a print cartridge. If this happens, suddenly the $5.00 pdf winds up costing $35.00 because he now has to buy a new printer cartridge. Many publishers (like Bastion Press) have started to take steps to get around some of these issues but it has not completely resolved them.

If a retail operation was to print and sell pdfs, they would quickly find themselves in the same boat regarding cartridge use. If the retailer sells the pdf and then offers to print it for a nominal fee (say $5.00) then the consumer has already invested at least half the cost of the average printed product (going with an average of $19.99 here). So from the consumer stand point, he's back at the view of "why am I paying so much for this product that was supposed to be so cheap? If I am paying this much then I want a more professionally printed and bound product."

Until pdf publishers can package their pdf products in such a way where all art can be turned off with the click of a mouse, I believe there will be an uphill battle for acceptance among the general public. It could very well be that working deals with FLGS can help turn that corner, but you have still have to consider the backlash that may come from them when they see what costs are involved in printing those products for the consumer. I could quickly see a situation where a dealer charges the cost of the pdf plus $15-$20 to print the full pdf (color and illustrations included). See the potential for abuse and consumer backlash here? Granted, this is strictly a hypothetical speculation but it should be a concern.
 

I totally agree. I was definately mis-understating the costs of PoD service on this. I'm glad that there are print companies willing to take this cost on and offer it so cheap to guys like james.

I will definately not want to do PoD in my store after seeing these threads, but will look at ordering from RPGnow. Of course, the only problem here is the wait (1-2 weeks) for delivery.

I'm still at a loss as to how to offer PDF's to my customers locally who don't want to wait for a PoD or CD to be mailed to them, but also don't have a decent internet connection or credit card to do it at home.

I'm just trolling for ideas.
 

Erik Mona said:
No legitimate print publisher I'm aware of feels "lucky" to sell 1000 copies. In fact, I strongly doubt that a product that sells 1000 copies is even profitable.

I think it's safer to say that smaller publishers would feel "lucky" to sell 2000-3000 copies, and mid-tier d20 companies regularly sell 3000 or more copies, and would view 1000 copies sold a failure.
[/B]

Well...it all depends.

If you keep costs down (go with the cheapest printing options, pay half the typical pro rates for writing and art, do a lot of the work yourself without pay) and charge enough, you may be able scrape by around 1000 copies in initial sales on an RPG book.

I'm working on an article for d20Weekly that provides a spreadsheet for a printed D20 product. Folks (assuming d20Weekly likes it) will be able to download it, change the inputs (what if the price is $2 more? what if we pay 2 cents per word instead of 4? what if we use larger type so we average 500 words per page instead of 650 or 750?), and see the bottom-line impact on the break-even point and maximum potential profit from the printing.
 

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