What kind of Sales can you expect from PDF?

[jmucchiello]

Again, I disagree. If you go into a music or video store, you never see shelves with the best-ever selling albums or videos. You see the "current chart". The mucis industry suffers the same problem that this one does - it's bloated. The number of sales required to reach #1 in the charts is vastly less than it was in, say, the 70s. So all you'd ever see in prominent places in music stores would be old Beatles and Michael Jackson albums, and nothing current.

That's almost convinced me except for one thing. We're complaining that the shelf life of PDFs is dropping from 60 days to 30 days. Shouldn't we include sales over the last 60 days (a wider window, but still narrower than forever) so that a product that does well out of the gate still stays on the front shelf for at least 2 months?

Joe

 

[MEG Hal]

Ok, Interludes is #21, and about 235 sold so far and selling a few each month. Right Beneath is about 150 and is free both stats from RPGNow.com. I am also going to take the sale price off at the end of November to see what happens.

 

[Morrus]

That's almost convinced me except for one thing. We're complaining that the shelf life of PDFs is dropping from 60 days to 30 days. Shouldn't we include sales over the last 60 days (a wider window, but still narrower than forever) so that a product that does well out of the gate still stays on the front shelf for at least 2 months?

Joe

Yeah - I was pushing for a longer period, but James seems to think 15 days is the way to ago. I agree with you - I suggested a month.

Perhaps ENWorld can actually do some of the work by seperating the PDF product reviews from the print reviews (or having a way to filter for PDFs) so that those already inclined to purchase a PDF cna easily scan through the available products and read quality reviews of them. This might be helped by having more staff reviews of PDFs too since those (and the affiliates) are the guys I trust the most.

I just sent an email to the chap who helps with the reviews page to see if this is feasible. if he says it can be done, then I'll do it.

 

[Morrus]

List updated with Hal's and Twin Rose's info:

2: 730 (TF&T)
4: 578 (Wild Spellcraft)
5: ~530 (Inns & Taverns)
6: 528 (LE1)
9: 450 (CG1)
10: 381 (4C2F)
13: 329 (Gar'Udok)
21: 235 (Interludes)
19: 232 (LE2)
24: 172 (Campaign Suite)
26: 160 (Enchiridon)

Below #30:

156: 101 Spellbooks (+16 elsewhere)
152: Moon Elves (+55 or so lost figures...grrr...)
150: Right Beneath (Right Under our Noses?)
149: Everyone Else
146: Drow (+6 Print On Demand not counted)
135: 101 Treasures (+6 elsewhere)
125: Enchantment
121: Death: GotG
99: Bodies & Souls
75: 101 Components (+28 elsewhere)

 

[Twin Rose]

#24 Campaign Suite
172 Sales
(Just under $3,500)

That's on RPGNow only

 

[MThibault]

That doesn't help the consumer at all - it's just a list of the oldest products (with one or two exceptions). It also probably adversely affects current publishers who find it so much harder to get their product seen by people, which could well be better than anything on that list.

So a last 30 days option seems to me to be a much more accurate, and much fairer way to do it.


Morrus,

What I would prefer (for what it's worth) is a small current hot list (10 ranks, 5 days) so that new products can get their break. They won't stay up long, and it will fluctuate madly, but if they sell a decent amount they will appear on the more stable Recent Bestsellers list (15-20 ranks, 30 days). Then if they do really well they will appear on the Year's Bestsellers List (10 Ranks, 12 months).

If this industry were as mature (age-wise, I mean) as the literary industry then RPGNow could put up a "Classics" Page that will draw attention to products that are over a year old and still worth browsing. Of course, the makeup of this list will cause more discussion and controversy than the naming of a Booker panel. But most bookstores do this. They will bring perennial sellers out to the aisle displays and shop windows every now and then just to let people know that they have more than the recent bestsellers. No one really complains if Philip Roth gets onto the prime real estate this week instead of Wordsworth, it is the bookstore's perogative to try and do what it can to sell products.

Gamers seem to be a sensitive lot, though, and I can see why RPGnow wouldn't even consider a "soft" classics list.


I think most people hold back not because they think PDFs are low quality books but because they just want to be able to read the thing on the loo...



2WS-Steve,

I think that it was Ray Bradbury who said that for the computer to replace a book it would have to satisfy the three "B"s. You must be able to read it in Bed, on the Bus and in the Bathtub.

Cheers.

 

[Morrus]

Here's another factor, with RPGNow's new "Customer Sources" option -- where do people hear about PDFs from? I'll show mine here -- as expected, the majority of my sales come from my own site. Is that fairly common (do most of your customers hear about your product from your own sites?) or from news sources like myself?

This will, at the very least, show new publishers where to send their new product info if they want to get it seen.

TF&T:

332 customers from ENWorld.org
188 customers from Unknown
30 customers from Search Engine
25 customers from MonteCook.com
16 customers from Website Refferal
15 customers from Friend
9 customers from Dragon Magazine
8 customers from Dungeon Magazine
8 customers from roleplayingtips.com
7 customers from Wizards.com
5 customers from NBos.com
4 customers from google
4 customers from Net
4 customers from RPGShop.com
4 customers from web
3 customers from EN World
3 customers from RPGNews.com
3 customers from RPGObjects
3 customers from Yahoo.com
2 customers from Banners
2 customers from Campaign Suite
2 customers from Drago n
2 customers from Internet
2 customers from online
2 customers from RealmsofEvil.net
2 customers from RPG.net
1 customers from -
1 customers from Aldo Ghiozzi, via WZL Mailing List
1 customers from blah blah blah
1 customers from click through from thunderhead games
1 customers from community 3e
1 customers from Cybercon
1 customers from Dark Quest Games
1 customers from Darkfuries
1 customers from darkquest
1 customers from DM's Familiar
1 customers from DNDL List
1 customers from Duncan Fielden
1 customers from Effie Rovers RPG
1 customers from EN Wold
1 customers from ENWorld
1 customers from everywhere good gamers read internet d20 news
1 customers from GENCON
1 customers from GMMastery.com
1 customers from google.com
1 customers from Guild Companion
1 customers from http://www.rpgd20.com/
1 customers from I don't know
1 customers from Kingdoms of Kalamar Message Boards
1 customers from Knights of the Dinner Table
1 customers from magazine
1 customers from Mongoose Publishing
1 customers from Moongoose Site
1 customers from Mortality.net and their radio show
1 customers from Mortality.net radio show.
1 customers from Nick
1 customers from o grimorio
1 customers from on line
1 customers from on the web
1 customers from on Wyvernsclaws site
1 customers from PBMCube
1 customers from Polyhedron
1 customers from Posting Board
1 customers from Product order (vacuum elemental)
1 customers from Pyramid Magazine
1 customers from REVIEW
1 customers from rpg forum
1 customers from rpgd20.com
1 customers from rpghoard.com
1 customers from RPGtips.com
1 customers from seankreynolds.com
1 customers from Someone from my D&D group
1 customers from Twin Rose Software
1 customers from WebRPG ad
1 customers from www.gamingreport.com
1 customers from www.mortality.net
1 customers from wyvernsclawdesign.com

Wild Spellcraft

267 customers from ENWorld.org
156 customers from Unknown
22 customers from MonteCook.com
18 customers from Search Engine
14 customers from Website Refferal
14 customers from Wizards.com
9 customers from Dragon Magazine
8 customers from Friend
6 customers from Dungeon Magazine
3 customers from net
3 customers from RPGNews.com
3 customers from RPGObjects
3 customers from RPGShop.com
2 customers from Banners
2 customers from Google
2 customers from RealmsofEvil.net
2 customers from RPGhost.com
2 customers from Thunderhead Games
1 customers from -
1 customers from Altavista
1 customers from Anubim Publishers
1 customers from Campaign Suite
1 customers from chatboard
1 customers from Cybercon
1 customers from d20
1 customers from Dark Quest
1 customers from Dark Quest Games
1 customers from darkquest
1 customers from Drago n
1 customers from Dumb luck.
1 customers from Duncan Fielden
1 customers from Email
1 customers from EN Board
1 customers from EnWorld
1 customers from everywhere good gamers read internet d20 news
1 customers from from the Web
1 customers from http://www.rpgd20.com/
1 customers from Jamis Buck's Generators
1 customers from john ballew
1 customers from Malhovic Site
1 customers from Mongoose Publishing
1 customers from Moongoose Site
1 customers from Mortality.net and their radio show
1 customers from Natural Press
1 customers from NBos.com
1 customers from on line
1 customers from online
1 customers from Privateer Press
1 customers from Publisher's site
1 customers from Pyramid Magazine
1 customers from roleplayingtips.com
1 customers from RPG Hoard
1 customers from RPG Sheets
1 customers from RPGNet Review of one of your products
1 customers from Thunderheadgames.com
1 customers from Warhound
1 customers from While reading Reviews for Wild Spellcraft
1 customers from www.hirstarts.com forum
1 customers from www.mortality.net
1 customers from Wyvern claws
1 customers from Wyvern's Claw Design
1 customers from Yahoo.com

4C2F

154 customers from ENWorld.org
113 customers from Unknown
14 customers from MonteCook.com
13 customers from Friend
8 customers from Search Engine
7 customers from Dragon Magazine
7 customers from Website Refferal
3 customers from Dungeon Magazine
2 customers from enworld
2 customers from here
2 customers from Mongoose Publishing
2 customers from net
2 customers from roleplayingtips.com
2 customers from RPGhost.com
2 customers from RPGNews.com
2 customers from RPGObjects
2 customers from Wizards.com
2 customers from Yahoo.com
1 customers from -
1 customers from Anubim Publishers
1 customers from Banners
1 customers from d20revies
1 customers from Dark Quest
1 customers from darkquest
1 customers from Dunn
1 customers from Email
1 customers from EN World
1 customers from found in the internet
1 customers from From the Web
1 customers from Game trade Magazine
1 customers from GameWyrd RPG Reviews
1 customers from Google
1 customers from GPA
1 customers from Husband told me about it!
1 customers from just stumbled across it
1 customers from Knights of the Dinner Table comic
1 customers from mongoosepublishing.com
1 customers from Natural D20 Press
1 customers from Natural20 Press
1 customers from NBos.com
1 customers from online
1 customers from oswaldo
1 customers from Other roleplayers
1 customers from privateer press
1 customers from RealmsofEvil.net
1 customers from rec.rpg.super-heros
1 customers from RPG.net
1 customers from RPGD20
1 customers from RPGd20.com
1 customers from RPGNet Review of one of your products
1 customers from RPGShop.com
1 customers from Sean K Reynolds
1 customers from space
1 customers from Spycraft member forum
1 customers from Starwars Rpg Holonet
1 customers from the DM of my current campaign
1 customers from The web
1 customers from Uncle Bear
1 customers from Unknown
1 customers from web
1 customers from While reading Reviews for Wild Spellcraft
1 customers from www.enworld.org
1 customers from www.imperiumrpg.com
1 customers from www.seankreynolds.com
1 customers from x

Moon Elves

58 customers from ENWorld.org
46 customers from Unknown
11 customers from Search Engine
7 customers from Website Refferal
5 customers from MonteCook.com
3 customers from Friend
2 customers from Dragon Magazine
2 customers from EN World
2 customers from Mongoose Publishing
2 customers from RealmsofEvil.net
2 customers from www.roleplayingmaster.com
1 customers from -
1 customers from EN Board
1 customers from EnWorld
1 customers from GameWyrd RPG Reviews
1 customers from Husband told me about it!
1 customers from magazine
1 customers from malavoc press
1 customers from Mongoosepublishing newsletter
1 customers from Mortality.net
1 customers from Mortality.net and their radio show
1 customers from Net
1 customers from Polyhedron
1 customers from rpg online
1 customers from RPGNews.com

Death: GoftG

47 customers from ENWorld.org
36 customers from Unknown
8 customers from MonteCook.com
4 customers from Dungeon Magazine
4 customers from Search Engine
4 customers from Website Refferal
2 customers from Friend
1 customers from -
1 customers from chatboard
1 customers from Dragon Magazine
1 customers from Email
1 customers from EN Board
1 customers from enworld
1 customers from FenrisWolf
1 customers from Internet
1 customers from Mongoose Publishing
1 customers from mongoosepublishing.com
1 customers from Moongoose Site
1 customers from Mortality.net and their radio show
1 customers from Net
1 customers from RPGNet Review of one of your products
1 customers from RPGObjects
1 customers from Sean K. Reynold's site
1 customers from Web
1 customers from Wizards.com

Drow

51 customers from Unknown
48 customers from ENWorld.org
7 customers from MonteCook.com
7 customers from Search Engine
6 customers from Website Refferal
3 customers from RPG.net
2 customers from Dungeon Magazine
2 customers from Friend
2 customers from Mongoose Publishing
2 customers from RPGNews.com
2 customers from Web
1 customers from -
1 customers from a friend
1 customers from Ambient
1 customers from chatboard
1 customers from Dragon Magazine
1 customers from EN Wold
1 customers from EN World
1 customers from EnWorld
1 customers from From the Web
1 customers from Guild Companion
1 customers from Hero Mail List
1 customers from Mongoosepublishing newsletter
1 customers from Moongoose Site
1 customers from NBos.com
1 customers from net
1 customers from RPGNet Review of one of your products
1 customers from RPGObjects
1 customers from Thunderhead Games

 

[jmucchiello]

Here's another factor, with RPGNow's new "Customer Sources" option -- where do people hear about PDFs from? I'll show mine here -- as expected, the majority of my sales come from my own site. Is that fairly common (do most of your customers hear about your product from your own sites?) or from news sources like myself?

Don't forget. That list is where the customer found RPGNow. Not your product. See a familiar place shows up on my list as well. (I left out the 1s.) This is why places like Dungeon Magazine show up.

46 customers from ENWorld.org
39 customers from Unknown
7 customers from MonteCook.com
7 customers from Search Engine
3 customers from Friend
2 customers from Dungeon Magazine
2 customers from Web
2 customers from Website Refferal
2 customers from Wizards.com

It would be cool if they had the actual referrer field but that would be hard to capture in a shopping cart app. Most of the referrers would be RPGNow (if you buy more than one item at a time). What this list shows is that ENWorld is a good place to advertise your product. I don't think that's really news.

Joe

 

[Conaill]

24: 172 (Campaign Suite)
26: 160 (Enchiridon)

Below #30:

156: 101 Spellbooks (+16 elsewhere)
152: Moon Elves (+55 or so lost figures...grrr...)

With this small a difference between being on the list or off it....

any publishers willing to 'fess up that they bought a few of their own copies just to make it on the list?

 

[Morrus]

Don't forget. That list is where the customer found RPGNow. Not your product. See a familiar place shows up on my list as well. (I left out the 1s.) This is why places like Dungeon Magazine show up.

Umm... if that is the case, then, basically, I pretty much sell all of RPGNow's PDFs for them?

James, we need to talk....