D&D 5E What level would you make this spell effect: Unlight

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Picky question for the OP: what happens if a still-burning torch is taken out of the area - does it start emanating light again? And while still in the area, despite its lack of light is it still burning i.e. can set fire to things or burn someone's hand?

No, the torch is extinguished entirely.

Let's say this becomes a 3rd-level spell (my own vote would be for 2nd, but whatever). If I cast it as a 3rd then it takes down all light sources of base 3rd-level and lower even if those sources were upcast at the time; thus for example it'll always get Light, but Dawn, Wall of Fire, and other higher-level effects remain unaffected. But, if I upcast Unlight using a 5th-level slot it then takes down sources of 5th-level and lower, meaning that now Dawn is vulnerable.

I like the upcasting idea.

The tricky bits to rule on would be glowing weapons and the like; what level do those count as?

If this were 3E -- the easiest edition to figure out how effects map out -- I'd say those weapons are just using light spells. So in 5E, that's a cantrip-level effect.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Question for the OP: what character class(es) is this spell intended for?

I'm not sure. I'm trying to work backwards to create an effect in a dungeon area. If it's built as a spell effect first, it's easier for me to know how to adjudicate things when players try to deal with the effect. (Yes, I know I'm perfectly within the rules if I wanted to hand wave all of this; I'm choosing not to do so in this case.)

 

[Lanefan]

No, the torch is extinguished entirely.

Danger, Will Robinson! You're into very serious knock-on effects territory here.

If the spell extinguishes all fires in its area and prevents any from being lit, it in effect grants fire immunity for its duration. And lightning immunity, for all that. Way too powerful!

It should only affect light; more like an illusion that anything else, only it can't be disbelieved.

If this were 3E -- the easiest edition to figure out how effects map out -- I'd say those weapons are just using light spells. So in 5E, that's a cantrip-level effect.

Wouldn't there be a Permanence in there somewhere that would have to be beaten first?

 

[Blue]

Let's compare to the Darkness spell.

2nd level, range 60', Concentration up to 10 minutes.

Magical darkness spreads from a point you choose within range to fill a 15-foot-radius sphere for the duration. The darkness spreads around corners. A creature with darkvision can't see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can't illuminate it.
If the point you choose is on an object you are holding or one that isn't being worn or carried, the darkness emanates from the object and moves with it. Completely covering the source of the darkness with an opaque object, such as a bowl or a heIm, blocks the darkness.
If any of this spell's area overlaps with an area of light created by a spell of 2nd level or lower, the spell that created the light is dispelled.

So now let's compare:
The spell automatically extinguishes all light sources, mundane and magical, and prevents them from being re-lit during the effect's duration.

Question: What's the radius? What's the duration?
Comment: Mildly stronger than darkness, in that non-magical light sources need to be relit.
Comment: Weaker than darkness, does not do anything to light sources later brought in or ones that were not lit and now are - is this correct??
Comment: Mildly weaker than darkness, not mobile.
Comment: Much stronger than Darkness if there is no limit to the magic light it can extinguish.
Comment: Really stronger than Darkness as this can do things like put out a flametongue or a sunsword. Basically any magic item that needs to be activated and sheds light as a priamry purpose or a byproduct.

Magical sources that have not used up all of their duration will automatically relight after the unlight duration ends or after the magical light source leaves the area of effect for the unlight effect.

Comment: Effectively the same as Darkness with some odd corner cases - if there's a magical lantern that burns fuel, since it's extinguished it wouldn't be burning fuel during that time, etc. More ribbon than anything.

Comments on things not listed but are in darkness:
Wash: No effect on Darkvision. That's both a pro and a con.
Mildly weaker: Can't intentionally and temporarily block the unlight effect.
Question: Does this require Concentration.

--

Comments:
If you limit what it can put out to it's level or less, and give it Concentration and a 15'r, then it's about the same as Darkness - 2nd level.

 

[Lanefan]

Let's compare to the Darkness spell.

2nd level, range 60', Concentration up to 10 minutes.

Magical darkness spreads from a point you choose within range to fill a 15-foot-radius sphere for the duration. The darkness spreads around corners. A creature with darkvision can't see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can't illuminate it.
If the point you choose is on an object you are holding or one that isn't being worn or carried, the darkness emanates from the object and moves with it. Completely covering the source of the darkness with an opaque object, such as a bowl or a heIm, blocks the darkness.
If any of this spell's area overlaps with an area of light created by a spell of 2nd level or lower, the spell that created the light is dispelled.

So now let's compare:
The spell automatically extinguishes all light sources, mundane and magical, and prevents them from being re-lit during the effect's duration.

Question: What's the radius? What's the duration?
Comment: Mildly stronger than darkness, in that non-magical light sources need to be relit.
Comment: Weaker than darkness, does not do anything to light sources later brought in or ones that were not lit and now are - is this correct??
Comment: Mildly weaker than darkness, not mobile.
Comment: Much stronger than Darkness if there is no limit to the magic light it can extinguish.
Comment: Really stronger than Darkness as this can do things like put out a flametongue or a sunsword. Basically any magic item that needs to be activated and sheds light as a priamry purpose or a byproduct.

And I'll add:

Comment: weaker than Darkness in that it does not affect natural light e.g. sunlight

Also, IMO the lack of mobility makes it much weaker than Darkness.

It also seems Darkness has been beefed up considerably from the versions I'm used to; and at the same time nerfed. IMO Darkness shouldn't physically extinguish mundane light sources e.g. torches, just prevent them from emitting light; and it should affect ALL forms of vision. This proposed spell IMO should not affect vision per se, just the light that some people need to see by (thus darkvision not affected).

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

The spell automatically extinguishes all light sources, mundane and magical, and prevents them from being re-lit during the effect's duration. Magical sources that have not used up all of their duration will automatically relight after the unlight duration ends or after the magical light source leaves the area of effect for the unlight effect.

Feedback, particularly of the extremely picky rules lawyer kind, greatly appreciated.

This spell would definitely need to require up-casting to affect higher-level effects. Possibly with an ability check.

Potential rules-lawyer arguments that "That guy" may come up with:

"Extinguish" means "put and end to" or "destroy". When a creature that is a light source itself is extinguished by this spell, do they leave a body behind?
Radiant damage is pretty literally a light source. Is this spell immunity to radiant damage?
Fire and lightning also produce light.

Does this spell automatically snuff Searing Radiance, Wall of Fire, any Fire Elemental, level 20 Paladin capstone features?

 

[Benjamin Olson]

I would make it first or second level. Powerwise it could probably be a cantrip, but a cantrip is a major investment for something this niche. The fact that (depending on wording) it might, under the right circumstances, counter a lot of fairly high level spells and abiliities makes me say 2nd level, but given that it's more mundane effects are right up the Arcane Trickster's alley, I don't really want them to have to wait until 7th level to have access to it, so level 1 feels better.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Comment: Weaker than darkness, does not do anything to light sources later brought in or ones that were not lit and now are - is this correct??

No. It would be an anti-magic sphere, but for light sources only, both magical and mundane.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm seeing the arguments about the effects need to be limited to illumination, but not magical flames themselves, or radiant damage, etc.

This is going to be a super-long spell description for what's basically a pretty simple effect.

 

[Blue]

This is going to be a super-long spell description for what's basically a pretty simple effect.

For the simple effect, a Darkness spell seems to hit all the same high notes. If you tell us why that's not sufficient it would help.

And can this put out a flametongue or sunsword becuase they radiat light? How about a magic item that permanently radiates light?