What Makes a Deity?

[Snoweel]

An exchange in another thread (4e Gods with Stats) got me wondering about the difference between D&D gods and other powerful supernatural beings.

What really is the difference? This isn't a rhetorical question - obviously there are differences (gods are Immortal as opposed to Elemental or Fey, for example, and most of them dwell on the Astral Sea).

But what is the difference between gods and other 'godlike' beings - archfey, demon lords, primordials, Far Realm entities, primal spirits, etc - to the characters living inside the game world?

Obviously there is canon (feel free to share; I know some of you are subject matter experts on D&D canon and I'd love to know if there's an official line on this) but I'm mostly interested in your own take on these beings. How does it all work in your setting?

 

[Rechan]

When a mommy god and a daddy god love each other very much...





a deity will pop out of the daddy god's shoulder or nose. (Seriously, read Greek Mythology)

 

[No Name]

The gods get portfolios.

 

[Hairfoot]

In Forgotten Realms, a bigger deity.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Essentially, the Gods are at a power level beyond almost every other creature in the universe according to most lore.

The official 4e lore talks about the world being created by the gods out of the material of the universe and the primordials getting kind of annoyed at that and starting a war that the gods won.

The implication in most of the books appears to be that gods and primordials are the most powerful creatures. They can create or destroy entire worlds(albeit probably not instantly).

The rest of the creatures you mention are powerful. But all of them are powerful in their own domains or over very specific things. Gods should be powerful over everything.

 

[Snoweel]

The gods get portfolios.

Right, but what exactly does that mean? How does the rural human peasant know that Pelor is the "god of the sun and summer" when the eladrin who protect his village (and demand tribute in return) only allow teaching on the Summer Queen and her court?

How about the violent dwarven raider and blacksmith who was born and raised in an isolated coastal town ruled by human priests of Baphomet? This guy has never even heard of Moradin and as far as he knows, the Horned King is the god of forges, mining and everything else in the world.

 

[Jhaelen]

In my D&D games there has always been a simple rule: If you can kill it, it's not a deity.

I know, this somewhat goes against the D&D tradition, but that's the approach that works best for me.

I don't mind the 4e statblocks but it's unlikely I'm ever going to use them. Then again, IIRC, the Torog writeup basically said, deities can only be bloodied, not killed (unless the deity _wants_ to be killed). That would work for me as well.

 

[Pig Champion]

To me, gods have always been more about the lore. Anyone or thing can be a god to somebody or thing. All it takes is some good folklore and time grow into a deity, complete with rituals, a clergy and worshippers.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Maybe it's one of the "I know it when I see it" things?

Maybe a difference is something like this, kinda a "chicken or egg" problem:

- The Winter Court exists in a cold region in the Feywild. The Winter Fey decided to settle there because it most appealed to their personality, or they lived their and their personality was formed by the coldness. As a result, they might have gotten some powers over the cold, and when they leave their cold region, they bring parts of it with them. But over time, they will grow weaker if they don't return.

- The Winter God creates the cold region. Where he resides, he will create a cold region. People come to him because they either like it there, or because they pledge him to not bring the coldness to their homes. If the Winter God moves to a new place, he creates new coldness there. He won't get weaker going to a hot place, he will simply cool that place down.

The Scales of Wars Adventure Path suggests that removing a god with a particular portfolio can actually remove the portfolios influence from the world. So if you kill the Winter God, the winters will at least become a lot milder. Of course, sometimes god prefer to adopt these portfolios instead of letting them go. Maybe it's possible to recreate them.

 

[Umbran]

I've run a number of different cosmologies over the years. Most often, though, the difference is very simple:

Gods are the ones it is generally not possible to interact with.

You see, I usually have a problem with the the standard take D&D has with gods - to me, they come off rather like the aspects of Elminster most folks take the greatest offense to, but worse. They are the biggest, baddest NPCs, and it is darned difficult to reasonably explain why they don't just do it all themselves.

So, to vastly simplify things, I generally work with gods who only work through mortal hands (you know, like all those clerics running around). They *cannot* manifest or act directly in the world, so far as anyone knows. If I have a "world ending" plot, it typically revolves around some god trying to break that rule, and the PCs having to stop them.

This has the pleasing result that one can also doubt they exist.