What NON-OBVIOUS stuff would you like to see in Revised?

[Apok]

Re: Re: What NON-OBVIOUS stuff would you like to see in Revised?

3) PHB Spells: Don't let Greater Magic Weapon affect 50 arrows. Let the spell only affect one arrow. Otherwise, the double stacking of enhancement bonuses for bow and arrows gets to be really high in games where the party is 8th level and above.

Bad idea, and I'll tell you why.

As it stands now, GMW is the only good way to get a decent supply of enchanted arrows. Without that spell, archers are basically useless once DR comes into play since only the enhancement bonus of the missile is considered. Changing it to one arrow/casting would basically make it useless. Gee, I've got one +3 arrow, which means I get one good shot and then I'm outta the fight.

If you make this change, then you will also have to have the enhancement bonus of the bow or crossbow count against DR and not just the ammo. Someone mentioned this already (mousferatu?) and said that the bonus should at least overlap (use the higher of the two) for DR penetration purposes. The double-stacking damage and attack bonuses are nice, but if enchanted arrows aren't necessary to penetrate DR then it becomes much less of an issue. Another possible solution would be to make enchanted arrows much cheaper to buy or at least sell them in packs of 100 rather than 50.

Besides, 50 arrows is nothing. A good archer can eat through those in 10 rounds or less, so he'd better save that quiver of GMW'd arrows for the stuff with DR rather than using it against every goblin or gnoll on the road.

 

[Xarlen]

Have at least two spells per school per spell level. Think of the specialists.

I disagree with this for one reason: Poor Schools.

It is hard enough to get 1 spell of your school unless you're allready in a very diverse school. Try being a Conjurer, Diviner (Hell, P-Kitty couldn't find a decent 8th level Diviner spell), Enchanter, or Necromancer, with the core rules. You're screwed. The Illusionist in my party had this problem.

And, while crippled with not being allowed another school, specialists would become even MORE focused, but even more crippled. How would they get any other spells? Mages are about versatility; that way, you're making them almost sorceror like. They should be able to have other spells, without spending each one per level on their school.

"Quick! Hurry, Fireball the orcs!"
"I can't."
"Why not?"
"I'm a transmuter."

 

[Oni]

I disagree with this for one reason: Poor Schools.

It is hard enough to get 1 spell of your school unless you're allready in a very diverse school. Try being a Conjurer, Diviner (Hell, P-Kitty couldn't find a decent 8th level Diviner spell), Enchanter, or Necromancer, with the core rules. You're screwed. The Illusionist in my party had this problem.

And, while crippled with not being allowed another school, specialists would become even MORE focused, but even more crippled. How would they get any other spells? Mages are about versatility; that way, you're making them almost sorceror like. They should be able to have other spells, without spending each one per level on their school.

"Quick! Hurry, Fireball the orcs!"
"I can't."
"Why not?"
"I'm a transmuter."

I think you misunderstood me. I don't mean specialist should have to take both of their spells from leveling up from the specialty school. I mean each of the schools should have at least two spells at any given level so that specialist, who have to take at least one spell from the specialty school when they level have something at every level without having to pick from lower level spells. For instance at the 8th spell level in the PHB there is only one divination spell, and this occurs in several other instances.


[edit: Another for the wish list. To bring more flavor to specialist I would like to see the inclusion of specialist only spells, a short spelllist that only they can access in addition to the normal wizard list, sort of an arcane version of domains. I think domains where one of the best ideas, for adding variety amoung clerics and I would love to see similar ideas used to add variety to the other spellcasting classes.]

 

[Victim]

Well, test it out. Take a CR 8 creature. Advance it to double its hit dice. Then put it up against a party of 16th level characters.

I'd put money on the idea that, all else being equal and assuming a good spread of party abilities, they'll wipe the floor with it.

Yes, but try it against a level 10 party and see if it only uses 20-25% of their resources. Or how about a CR 9 Noble Salamander with double HD. Barring Harm, I think it would pose a very great challenge to 11th level characters. It would only attack at +41/+36/+31/+26 and +33 with 4d6+18 +2d6 fire per hit and the Power Attack feat, and it would have base saves of +17. When compared to another CR 11 "brute" monster, the Elder Earth Elemental, the advanced noble salamander comes out on top, with better attacks, damage, saves - much better on will and reflex - and it has useful spell like abilities including Dispel Magic.

 

[Alcamtar]

Re: Re: What NON-OBVIOUS stuff would you like to see in Revised?

1) PHB: Allow strength versions for all other missile weapons besides bows. A Strength crossbow shouldn't require any more strength (just be more expensive than usual).

A strength crossbow already exists: it's called a heavy crossbow. If you want an even heavier crossbow, increase damage and loading time. Historically, crossbows took about 15-30 seconds to load, except for very light sport crossbows, so this is realistic.

A strength sling doesn't really make sense. The sling gets it's power from momentum and velocity, not strength. Being stronger won't let you swing it faster, I shouldn't think. I guess I could see lobbing larger stones with it...

Originally posted by Endur
2) PHB: For crossbows, instead of making loading a move-equivalent action, only allow a crossbow to be fired during a full attack. That way, a crossbow wielder can shoot multiple times if he has multiple attacks, but he'll never be able to move and fire, which is more realistic (and closer to how other games model crossbows). He also wouldn't be able to fire during a partial action, which simulates the fact that his weapon isn't loaded and takes a little while longer to ready.

Part of the point of crossbows is that they can be held loaded; a bow cannot. Also as I said, realistically crossbows are very slow to load, but once they're loaded they can be held ready to fire for a long time. A bow can be loaded quickly, but cannot be held ready (at least a longbow cannot, and a strength bow of any type certainly couldn't).

Crossbows are also more complex to load and fire. You have to pull the skein back and lock it, insert a missile, and then activate the firing mechanism -- it's not all one motion pull and release like a bow. Even if you could pull the skein back and load it in a single motion with one hand, you'd still have to lock it, raise it to firing position and aim, and fire... how many times can you do that in six seconds?

D&D is already very generous with firing rates for both bows and crossbows. Two shots in a six-second round is about max for a realistic longbow, a shot every other round is reasonable for a light hand-cocked crossbow, and a shot every 3-5 rounds is about right for a heavy crossbow.

 

[Xarlen]

Gotcha, Oni!

I agree. And not just spells, but how about useful spells? Bigby's Blown-out Bungalo just doesn't pull it.

 

[Wolfen Priest]

I think Druids should use the cleric's spell progression list, and have access to the domains of Earth, Fire, Water, Air, Plant and Animal.

All races should have "Favored class: Any."

Half-Elves should get +1 to Cha and/or get no multi-classing penalty whatsoever (i.e., no -20% xp). Otherwise no one will play them over a human.

Barbarians should be allowed to specialize in a melee weapon.

Rangers should be allowed to specialize in a ranged weapon, and possibly have d12 for hit dice (they are rugged outdoorsmen afterall).

Stagger the Ranger's TWF virtual feats over the course of a few levels, and give them an additional +1 with two weapons at level 8, and another +1 at level 12 (giving them a -0/-0 with TWF in light armor). If they are the champs of TWF, then how about making them actually BETTER at it? Also, it has the net effect of giving people incentive to play the class past level one.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Does anyone else think that sling bullets are outrageously heavy?

Yeah... and how about the weight for (empty) pouches?

SRD:

Pouch, belt 1 gp 3 lb.

What... are the pouches made of woven lead? According to the rules, 7 simple belt pouches weigh more than a TENT. Or a 10-FOOT LADDER.

-z, WTF?

 

[Ravellion]

Re: Re: Re: What NON-OBVIOUS stuff would you like to see in Revised?

D&D is already very generous with firing rates for both bows and crossbows. Two shots in a six-second round is about max for a realistic longbow, a shot every other round is reasonable for a light hand-cocked crossbow, and a shot every 3-5 rounds is about right for a heavy crossbow.

Actually, no. I've seen this guy on the discovery channel fire 5 arrows at a target within 6 seconds. The target was 100 metres away and all hit the target: A metal breastplate, whcih was pierced by all arrows fired.

Rav

 

[Greybar]

Hmm wondering if this was a troll, but...

Half-Elves should get +1 to Cha and/or get no multi-classing penalty whatsoever (i.e., no -20% xp). Otherwise no one will play them over a human.

While my preference is generally for the flexibility of human, the half-elf does get skill bonuses (to the most useful general skills in the game), save bonuses, sleep immunity, lowlight vision, and the Fav:Any of the human.

I think Druids should use the cleric's spell progression list, and have access to the domains of Earth, Fire, Water, Air, Plant and Animal.

So a better spell range than the cleric (more domains) and all of the fancy powers as well?

John