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What Official 5E non-D&D Game Do You Want To See from WotC?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8636998" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>I disagree.</p><p></p><p>Context matters. Some settings, because of the general style of what's happening, the types of weapons used, whether characters are usually wearing armour, using magic, non-human and so on, can come across as vastly more/less silly when HP are used, especially linearly increasing HP like 5E uses, which is basically the "worst case scenario" HP-wise.</p><p></p><p>In a Western game, it's unlikely anyone is wearing any significant armour (Ned Kelly notwithstanding), and it's extremely likely most of that's happening is people shooting each other with pistols/rifles. This is a particularly good way to highlight the absurdity of HP and create a situation where any kind of immersiveness or RP is hard to sustain because things are so patently risible. Whereas for standard D&D, things have evolved to play this down, and to make it easier to play things off as not actual serious injuries. It's very hard to believe when someone shoots you with a gun, repeatedly, and you're unarmoured, that that would work. Part of why D&D doesn't work for some fantasy genres/vibes though is its use of linearly increasing HP.</p><p></p><p>A 5E Modern setting absolutely has the same problem. I guess you missed where I pointed that out? It's slightly less bad because you at least have bullet-proof vests and so on.</p><p></p><p>With Star Wars, well, last d20 SW game I played thought this problem was so bad that it created the VP/WP system, so yeah, that kind of massively supports my point, doesn't it? Maybe there was a later version that just used HP or something? But if so I'm sure that contributed to its unpopularity.</p><p></p><p>I also disagree, from long RPG experience, that<em> linearly increasing</em> HP "makes the game fun". Plenty of RPGs which either have HP that don't increase linearly (in some cases don't increase significantly at all after chargen), or don't use HP at all are as fun or more fun than D&D. Avoid death spiral mechanics does tend to make the game more fun, and having a simple "pool" or a couple of pools to which you do damage can be quite accessible and effective, but there's nothing particularly charming or fun about the <em>linear increase</em> of HP. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it's one of the things that people tend to end up disliking about D&D, and it's one of the many reasons so many campaigns peter out in the 8-12 level bracket, because HP have got so crazy. It's also why in editions where people have low HP at L1-3, adventures often have to be written in peculiar ways to "shepherd" PCs out of that zone, and why, as far back as 2E, starting L3 seemed like a good idea.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8636998, member: 18"] I disagree. Context matters. Some settings, because of the general style of what's happening, the types of weapons used, whether characters are usually wearing armour, using magic, non-human and so on, can come across as vastly more/less silly when HP are used, especially linearly increasing HP like 5E uses, which is basically the "worst case scenario" HP-wise. In a Western game, it's unlikely anyone is wearing any significant armour (Ned Kelly notwithstanding), and it's extremely likely most of that's happening is people shooting each other with pistols/rifles. This is a particularly good way to highlight the absurdity of HP and create a situation where any kind of immersiveness or RP is hard to sustain because things are so patently risible. Whereas for standard D&D, things have evolved to play this down, and to make it easier to play things off as not actual serious injuries. It's very hard to believe when someone shoots you with a gun, repeatedly, and you're unarmoured, that that would work. Part of why D&D doesn't work for some fantasy genres/vibes though is its use of linearly increasing HP. A 5E Modern setting absolutely has the same problem. I guess you missed where I pointed that out? It's slightly less bad because you at least have bullet-proof vests and so on. With Star Wars, well, last d20 SW game I played thought this problem was so bad that it created the VP/WP system, so yeah, that kind of massively supports my point, doesn't it? Maybe there was a later version that just used HP or something? But if so I'm sure that contributed to its unpopularity. I also disagree, from long RPG experience, that[I] linearly increasing[/I] HP "makes the game fun". Plenty of RPGs which either have HP that don't increase linearly (in some cases don't increase significantly at all after chargen), or don't use HP at all are as fun or more fun than D&D. Avoid death spiral mechanics does tend to make the game more fun, and having a simple "pool" or a couple of pools to which you do damage can be quite accessible and effective, but there's nothing particularly charming or fun about the [I]linear increase[/I] of HP. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it's one of the things that people tend to end up disliking about D&D, and it's one of the many reasons so many campaigns peter out in the 8-12 level bracket, because HP have got so crazy. It's also why in editions where people have low HP at L1-3, adventures often have to be written in peculiar ways to "shepherd" PCs out of that zone, and why, as far back as 2E, starting L3 seemed like a good idea. [/QUOTE]
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