What on earth does "video-gamey" mean?

[pawsplay]

The funniest thing about it is that we have this conversation EVERY SIX MONTHS, but with a new edition, suddenly 3.0/3.5 stopped being "video-gamey" and 4e appears to have taken it's place.

Actually, 3 is still video gamey, just far less than 4e.

 

[Tsyr]

You know what? Forget it. I could respond to every point you made, but why bother?

Almost everyone who has made the complaint has admitted it's hard to put into words. That's not good enough. "Put it into specific words!" you say. So we try. It's not precise, it's just examples, but those are immediately attacked as "No its not! That's not like a video game at all!" or "So what? It's a great rule!".

I'm not saying don't enjoy it. I've even said 4E is probably a great game, if you want what 4E offers. But don't tell me my opinion - my personal feeling on the issue - is /wrong/ just because you disagree. I can't help it, 4E feels videogamey to me. No amount of you shooting down any example I can come up with is going to change that.

This thread was about explanations and examples of what we meant. I thought, maybe, some people were genuinely confused and wanted an answer. We tried to come up with some. Lets leave it at that, ok? I didn't want this to turn into "4E rules, you're wrong for feeling the way you do!".

 

[Gallo22]

You know what? Forget it. I could respond to every point you made, but why bother?

Almost everyone who has made the complaint has admitted it's hard to put into words. That's not good enough. "Put it into specific words!" you say. So we try. It's not precise, it's just examples, but those are immediately attacked as "No its not! That's not like a video game at all!" or "So what? It's a great rule!".

I'm not saying don't enjoy it. I've even said 4E is probably a great game, if you want what 4E offers. But don't tell me my opinion - my personal feeling on the issue - is /wrong/ just because you disagree. I can't help it, 4E feels videogamey to me. No amount of you shooting down any example I can come up with is going to change that.

This thread was about explanations and examples of what we meant. I thought, maybe, some people were genuinely confused and wanted an answer. We tried to come up with some. Lets leave it at that, ok? I didn't want this to turn into "4E rules, you're wrong for feeling the way you do!".

They did not want an answer, they just wanted to argue why it's wrong to call 4th Edition a video game feel like game. It's like saying something "tastes like chicken" and being told your taste buds are wrong.

 

[Family]

Save points, railroading, repetition & cheat codes.

 

[Scribble]

They did not want an answer, they just wanted to argue why it's wrong to call 4th Edition a video game feel like game. It's like saying something "tastes like chicken" and being told your taste buds are wrong.

Or more like saying something tastes like juice, and when asked what kind of juice, saying "like juice stop bashing my opinion!"

 

[hazel monday]

Therein lies the rub, however: saying it plays like a video game is a terribly imprecise statement to folks like myself, who have been playing video games for longer than we've been playing D&D (in my case, over 30 years). Is Wizardry a video game? How about Wizardry VIII? World of Warcraft plays significantly differently from Viking, even though both have leveling up procedures, combat moves and an item and gold system. God of War is a video game, but I don't think it plays like D&D very much.

I think the communication breakdown is that you're expecting to have a technical discussion of the similarities between videogames and D&D with someone who can't stand videogames and as a result has never bothered to develop any significant technical knowledge of videogames.

But my feelings about 4.0 and videogames isn't about technical knowledge. It's about a gut reaction. My gut reaction to 4.0 is that it reminds me of my attempts to play videogames. They both failed to capture my imagination in exactly the same way.
They're both things that I tried and didn't like in the same way. That's my reaction to it. That's many people's reactions to it. I suppose that is a "Terribly imprecise" statement. But it still doesn't change how I feel about it.

4.0 feels like a videogame to me. Naming a buch of videogames I've never heard of or played doesn't change how I feel about it. Sorry.

 

[The Little Raven]

They did not want an answer, they just wanted to argue why it's wrong to call 4th Edition a video game feel like game.

No, we want objective statements that can be discussed, rather than emotion-based "It just feels that way" comments which do nothing for discussion. When people present reasonable claims about it, we can discuss it, but when it comes down to "It just does, and I can't explain why," then we go nowhere.

For example, when someone claims that D&D4e reminds them of WoW because residuum and the Disenchant Magic Item ritual seems directly inspired by WoW's enchanting system, with it's disenchanting and various "dusts," that's an objective point that demonstrates why it feels like that to them.

To a video game fan such as myself, claiming that D&D plays like a video-game is so imprecise as to not really hold a lot of meaning. To you, it may be very obvious what you mean...but without knowing what YOU think 'plays like a video game' means, the phrase lacks any sort of clarity to a general discussion.

Word.

 

[Tsyr]

Or more like saying something tastes like juice, and when asked what kind of juice, saying "like juice stop bashing my opinion!"

No, it's more like we said "This tastes kinda like juice, but I'm not sure what juice, but I know I don't like it." Then we were pestered to specify why we think it tastes like juice, and we said "Well, it's sweet and tangy", and were promptly told we were wrong, that's what Soda tastes like, and anyways Juice and Soda are great so we shouldn't complain.

 

[Tsyr]

No, we want objective statements that can be discussed, rather than emotion-based "It just feels that way" comments which do nothing for discussion. When people present reasonable claims about it, we can discuss it, but when it comes down to "It just does, and I can't explain why," then we go nowhere.

For example, when someone claims that D&D4e reminds them of WoW because residuum and the Disenchant Magic Item ritual seems directly inspired by WoW's enchanting system, with it's disenchanting and various "dusts," that's an objective point that demonstrates why it feels like that to them.

If by "They want it so they can discuss it", you mean "They want it so they can find the error in your opinion and change it", I suppose you're right.

 

[The Little Raven]

If by "They want it so they can discuss it", you mean "They want it so they can find the error in your opinion and change it", I suppose you're right.

No, to discuss it. To say "I won't give a reason or any objective evidence because all you'll do is try and pick it apart" is a total cop-out that just tells me that you have no objective support for the claim.

As already demonstrated, when presented in a reasonable and discussion-worthy fashion (like residuum), I'm more than willing to concede points of similarity (residuum IS very much like WoW enchanting/disenchanting).