What on earth does "video-gamey" mean?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

All its an example of is me making a statement that none of my friends that play D&D are switching over to 4e. Nothing more, nothing less. Some people in some online games I play in are curious about it, but no one I know of is hopping on that bandwagon.

The chief complaint is among my friends is that it is video-gamey and not really D&D anymore to them. Too much like WoW. I had heard that before and always thought it odd to always be compared to WoW. Why not compare it to EQ (I or II) or one of the others? I wondered until one of my friends explained that EQ really is sucking now, and after Sony screwed up EQII and lost a bunch of their customers that WoW is THE game now.

WoW is the hot thing indeed. I didn't really get into it, but neither did I really try or want to. I can be... dedicated to things. Like discussing 4E. If I waste all my free time on WoW, things could get ugly. I actually have a friend that seemed to have a phase of WoW "addiction". I don't want this happen to me.

But if WoW is actually that hot, then comparing D&D 4 to WoW can't be that bad - WoW must be doing something right, after all? Or is it not a true role-playing game if a majority likes it?
But since I didn't get into WoW, does this mean that D&D 4E is actually not for me? That's my problem with WoW or other video-game comparisons.

But if D&D 4E is like Jagged Alliance 2, I'll love it. So, please compare it to JA2, and I can sleep well.

 

[Lord_Jaroh]

WoW is the hot thing indeed. I didn't really get into it, but neither did I really try or want to. I can be... dedicated to things. Like discussing 4E. If I waste all my free time on WoW, things could get ugly. I actually have a friend that seemed to have a phase of WoW "addiction". I don't want this happen to me.

But if WoW is actually that hot, then comparing D&D 4 to WoW can't be that bad - WoW must be doing something right, after all? Or is it not a true role-playing game if a majority likes it?
But since I didn't get into WoW, does this mean that D&D 4E is actually not for me? That's my problem with WoW or other video-game comparisons.

But if D&D 4E is like Jagged Alliance 2, I'll love it. So, please compare it to JA2, and I can sleep well.

Much like how McDonald's is the "best" fast food, simply because it has the most customers? That many people can't be wrong...

There's something to be said for convenience and accessability. However when you make it "too accessable" you wash out what made it good in the first place (see Aliens vs. Predator and their respective series).

Me I'm not "for" or "against" 4th Edition as a whole. I do think that it adopts many "video game-like" qualities (by video games, I refer to MMOs like WoW and DaoC, and also to Diablo II/Titan Quest dungeon runners) as well as adopting many anime-like qualities (I'm no expert on anime by any means, but with the anime that I have seen, most generaly seem to favor the "over-the-top" ridiculousness in action as well as in attitudes. I am not a fan of that. See Advent Children, Dragonball Z, Full-Metal Alchemist, Evangelion)

I will continue to play 3/3.5 because I am familiar with it, I've put enough money into it and it works for me. 4th edition doesn't include anything in it that makes my game better, nor does it really improve in areas that 3rd was lacking, so to me it's not a different enough change to warrant me jumping ship.

As far as these little arguments on semantics, it's fruitless. Yes the 4th has a "video-gamey" feel, much like Tetris, much like Mario, much like Grand Theft Auto. It's the "artificialness" if you will. Nothing seems to "fit together" cohesively, flavour and mechanics. The immersiveness isn't there, so rather than being part of a story, I'm playing a game. Some people like that. If so, 4th is for you, and you can enjoy it muchly. Me, I don't care so much, and I'll enjoy what I already have as well as what will come out in the future.

 

[WizarDru]

as well as adopting many anime-like qualities (I'm no expert on anime by any means, but with the anime that I have seen, most generaly seem to favor the "over-the-top" ridiculousness in action as well as in attitudes. I am not a fan of that. See Advent Children, Dragonball Z, Full-Metal Alchemist, Evangelion)

(sigh).

And now the circle is complete. 4e has truly supplanted 3e.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Much like how McDonald's is the "best" fast food, simply because it has the most customers? That many people can't be wrong.

I thought the saying was: "Eat crap - Millions of flies can't be wrong"?

But the analogy still fails.
You play games for fun. They don't provide you with important nutrition, and they don't affect your body functions or your weight.

People like McDonald's because they don't have to cook themselves, and it provide a satisfying taste. There is stuff that's taste better, but it's more costly, or harder to get. But nutrition is not about having fun or having it easy. It's about your health.

The only measure for a game is whether it is entertaining and fun. The measure is, unfortunately, not an exact metric. People like different things, and thus not everyone can enjoy a game of Tetris, or a game of Poker, a game of World of Warcraft, or a game of D&D.

Anyone that is telling me that RPGs are good for education or mental development might not be wrong. But it's not their function. There are better sources for education, and better techniques to improve your mental development. Role-Playing Games are games.

 

[hamishspence]

games parallels

Should we split up the multiple computer games which have drawn upon aspects of D&D but flavoured them their own way, then compare them to the bits of 4th ed that have gotten closer in style to these reflavoured aspects?

Powers: Diablo 1 gave fighters no unique powers at all, but everyone could get powers from books. Wizards were just better at it. Same applied to melee and ranged: everyone could do it, but each did better at their speciality.
Diablo 2 followed a similar approach to 3.5 ed psionics: all powers drew of a pool, when pool was used up, powers stoped being available.

4th eds' encounter/dialy system is like ToB crossed with 2rd ed wizards. Doesn't closely follow either Diablo game.

"Shrines" closest parallel were the magical areas that granted bonuses to PCs, that began with Planar Handbook, and continuned through Sandstorm, DMG2, FC2. Nothing like that exists in 4th ed: yet.

As for MMOs, the most common comparison is with WoW. What about more complex ones: Everquest, Ultima Online. Do they fit better? With the crafting and profession emphasis, I'm not sure.

What other computer games might show similarities?

 

[Hussar]

No, actually, quite!

In your quote those are all decisions I made. Who the heck are you to tell me my own decisions and whether I need to defend or respond?

First you presume to tell me what I decide, now you presume to speak for the OP? You're pretty full of yourself, fella!

Not at all actually. I was simply pointing out that your idea may have some flaws. That the OP wasn't asking for what you personally thought Video-gamey meant (since he doesn't say that) but is asking for an actual definition of the term. X pages later, we realize that the term has very little meaning because everyone who uses it means something else.

Since video-gamey isn't in a dictionary, its reasonable to believe he was asking what people thought video-gamey means to them. And if you really believed subjective definitions were pointless you wouldn't be posting in a forum on discussion.

It is usually considered quite rude to tell people where they may or may not post here at En World.

In any case, do you honestly believe that subjective definitions have any real value?

If you had followed that advice, you wouldn't have written that post.

If there is anything unclear about what I wrote, I'd be happy to reword it. I had thought my words to be very clear and concise. If you find them to be vague, or provocative, could you please point me to where you think so? You criticism is vague and imprecise, so I am at a loss as to your meaning.