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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 8640751" data-attributes="member: 6877472">Here's my reasoning.&nbsp; First, it's not like we're asking these people to turn on their leaders, join us in taking out a dragon, or giving us their loot.&nbsp; This is simply put &quot;we could fight you and kill you, but we're giving you an option, just stand aside and let us fight your boss, who you don't like anyways, and if you really want to, we can fight on the way back&quot;.Second, it has to do with probabilities.&nbsp; Yes, I know, you can potentially lower the DC, and you might be able to get Help, but if you're looking at a DC 20, you have to understand a max level character has a very high chance to fail that.Only a true Diplomancer with Expertise in Persuasion can look at a DC 20 and make it reliably (although the issue with Expertise is that they probably make it too reliably...).Not every party is going to have someone with max Charisma, nor should they be expected to.&nbsp; But in this case, a guy with a 16 Charisma with a +6 proficiency bonus makes that check a coin flip.And finally, third, parlaying with enemies should be something lower level parties do.&nbsp; Higher level parties can just mop the floor with goons, lol.&nbsp; So putting DC's like this beyond the reach of low level characters (save for a very high die roll) seems rather absurd to me.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 8640751, member: 6877472"] Here's my reasoning. First, it's not like we're asking these people to turn on their leaders, join us in taking out a dragon, or giving us their loot. This is simply put "we could fight you and kill you, but we're giving you an option, just stand aside and let us fight your boss, who you don't like anyways, and if you really want to, we can fight on the way back". Second, it has to do with probabilities. Yes, I know, you can potentially lower the DC, and you might be able to get Help, but if you're looking at a DC 20, you have to understand a max level character has a very high chance to fail that. Only a true Diplomancer with Expertise in Persuasion can look at a DC 20 and make it reliably (although the issue with Expertise is that they probably make it [B]too[/B] reliably...). Not every party is going to have someone with max Charisma, nor should they be expected to. But in this case, a guy with a 16 Charisma with a +6 proficiency bonus makes that check a coin flip. And finally, third, parlaying with enemies should be something lower level parties do. Higher level parties can just mop the floor with goons, lol. So putting DC's like this beyond the reach of low level characters (save for a very high die roll) seems rather absurd to me. [/QUOTE]

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