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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 8642573" data-attributes="member: 6877472">Ok, but why is save for half damage acceptable and damage on a miss isn't?&nbsp; The mechanics are almost entirely the same, save the attacker makes an attack against AC (which can include Dexterity) or the defender makes a Dexterity check against the spell save DC...but one does half damage if it &quot;fails&quot; and the other does not.Further, you need a special ability (Evasion) to take absolutely no damage from Fireball, but it's the default for attacks vs. AC.If you say &quot;well your armor absorbs all the damage&quot;, then armor seems a bit good in that it adds to the &quot;DC&quot; of attacks by it's very presence, and also grants this &quot;evasion&quot; effect.And since hit points are only partly damage (and in fact, include, according to Gary Gygax, &quot;the actual physical ability of the character to withstand damage- as indicated by Constitution bonuses- and a commensurate increase in areas such as skill in combat and similar life or death situations, the sixth sense which warns the individual of some otherwise unforeseen events, sheer luck, and the fantastic provisions of magical protections and/or divine protection&quot;), the fact that you take no damage on a missed attack roll and half damage on a successful Dexterity save seems suspect.The only reason &quot;damage on a miss&quot; is unacceptable is that it's different.&nbsp; If hit points are an abstraction, and involve doing things like dodging out of the way of attacks (which Dexterity already accounts for with AC), then losing hit points just from stress and fatigue whether you take a solid blow or not, shouldn't be any more or less of an abstraction.I mean, you may not like the idea, but there's really no logic against allowing some weapon attacks to function in this manner.&nbsp; The only thing standing in it's way is tradition.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 8642573, member: 6877472"] Ok, but why is save for half damage acceptable and damage on a miss isn't? The mechanics are almost entirely the same, save the attacker makes an attack against AC (which can include Dexterity) or the defender makes a Dexterity check against the spell save DC...but one does half damage if it "fails" and the other does not. Further, you need a special ability (Evasion) to take absolutely no damage from Fireball, but it's the default for attacks vs. AC. If you say "well your armor absorbs all the damage", then armor seems a bit good in that it adds to the "DC" of attacks by it's very presence, and [B]also [/B]grants this "evasion" effect. And since hit points are only partly damage (and in fact, include, according to Gary Gygax, "the actual physical ability of the character to withstand damage- as indicated by Constitution bonuses- and a commensurate increase in areas such as skill in combat and similar life or death situations, the sixth sense which warns the individual of some otherwise unforeseen events, sheer luck, and the fantastic provisions of magical protections and/or divine protection"), the fact that you take no damage on a missed attack roll and half damage on a successful Dexterity save seems suspect. The only reason "damage on a miss" is unacceptable is that it's different. If hit points are an abstraction, and involve doing things like dodging out of the way of attacks (which Dexterity already accounts for with AC), then losing hit points just from stress and fatigue whether you take a solid blow or not, shouldn't be any more or less of an abstraction. I mean, you may not like the idea, but there's really no logic against allowing some weapon attacks to function in this manner. The only thing standing in it's way is tradition. [/QUOTE]

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