What rules don't work?

[RangerWickett]

In your experiences, what rules are you dissatisfied about, because they don't feel right?

For me, it's grappling when big creatures are involved. Sure, it's cool and dramatic when a purple worm grabs a character in its mouth and swallows him, but what about Dragons? Has anyone noticed that the ultra cool picture of Tordek in the red dragon's mouth vanished from the PHB? It used to be in the combat section (and I got it signed by Todd Lockwood at GenCon 2000), but it's gone now. It was a great pic, with Tordek clinging to the dragon's mouth as he hacks at it with his axe.

You can't do that in a D&D game. If you're in its mouth, you're grappled, and you can only attack with a light weapon, not an axe. And to draw your light weapon you have to make a grapple check, which is impossible because a dragon with a +45 grapple check has you in its mouth. You also can't do the classic "climb onto the monster's back and attack it from a blind spot trick," because grabbing onto a creature is considered grappling, and it's just plain impossible to grapple a big creature. I would house rule it to be a Climb check with a high DC, but it'd be kinda nice if it was standardized in the rules.

The other thing about big creatures is that the easiest way to kill them is to jump into their mouths with a +1 wounding dagger, since they all have much lower ACs on the inside. Cutting your way out is a sinch, especially compared to cutting your way in. I'm imagining there's a group of halfling assassins out there who specialize in "Into the Mouth" combat techniques.

One last thing is Spot checks. Now, the way I run it, the -1 per 10 ft. penalty on Spot checks only applies when a creature is actively trying to hide. Otherwise it would be nearly impossible to see anything beyond 200 ft. But by the rules, I must be a high-level ranger with favored enemy - airplanes, because I can spot planes taking off from Atlanta's Hartsfield airport, at least 1000 ft. up. That's a base DC modifier of +100, then -16 because it's colossal. If I roll a nat 20 on my Spot, and it rolls a nat 1 on its hide, and has a -20 penalty for hiding while 'running', the DC is 65, which means I have to have a +45 Spot check.

23 ranks, +10 from favored enemy 5 times, 28 Wisdom is +9, eyes of the eagle is +5. Yeah, it's doable.

Do you have any other rules that you just don't think work in a way that's consistent with the rest of D&D? Or for other game systems?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Grappling with a big creature feels perfect IMHO. Not just any sort of grabbing onto things is grappling, though, which is where your Climb check comes in (though by the rules, it's Tumble). I can move into spaces occupied by other creatures just by moving. Grappling only starts when the creature makes the initial grab and tries to start it. So the classic move to run all over it's body is simply that -- moving over spaces occupied by hostile creatures. It's not a grapple until the dragon uses his Attack of Opportunity to start one. And I do need to be an agile little critter to avoid a dragon's touch attack.

 

[satori01]

I would like simplifed flying rules. The Characters in my campaign pretty much can either fly naturally,(sprite magister <AE>, Asimaar with racial feats from Races of Faerun), have access to flight from class, (Warlock, Hawk Totem Warrior, Druid), or can get it from a spell.

Flight is very common in my game,(and frankly in most games past a certain point) and players just dont want to deal with turn mobility, forward momentum, and the lack of hovering, and whether you have to land at the end of a turn.

Simplify, Simplify, Simplify, flying combats should be there to be cool, not bogged down by Grognog adjudications.

Grappling is also a bit of a pet peeve. The mechanics of grappling just wreck the visual in my head of what is going on.

Grapple attack roll
AOO
stop or proceded
opposed check
pin or ..............

The twinked out fighter wrestling with the War Troll with posion spiked armor after the troll disarmed him, should be a great flavorfull image and a fun combat to run,

and it isnt.... grappling rules =dull.

 

[S'mon]

I agree about grappling - there are cases where large creatures ought not to get their size bonus, mostly when trying to hold much smaller creatures; and I agree about dwarf grappled by dragon, if he's not pinned he should be able to attack.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I agree about grappling - there are cases where large creatures ought not to get their size bonus, mostly when trying to hold much smaller creatures; and I agree about dwarf grappled by dragon, if he's not pinned he should be able to attack.

I guess the rules of grappling suffer a bit from the "double reward" - if you´re big, your strength is higher, and if you´re big, you get a greater grapple bonus. Maybe +4 is simply to much ...

 

[glass]

The thing that slightly bugs me is the way iterative attacks work. Specifically, a first level fighter who moves his speed gives up zero attacks. A 20th level fighter who moves his speed gives up 3/4 of his attacks. Just seems odd to me that character who can attack quicker loose more for moving than there slower coleages.


glass.

 

[S'mon]

I guess the rules of grappling suffer a bit from the "double reward" - if you´re big, your strength is higher, and if you´re big, you get a greater grapple bonus. Maybe +4 is simply to much ...

Yup - the big high-STR creatures end up with ridiculous bonuses. You can never do Tarzan vs giant crocodile because the croc can never lose the grapples. I'm thinking of just eliminating the size bonus for grapple 'attacks' and just retain it for defensive rolls.

 

[Nightcloak]

For me, it's grappling when big creatures are involved. Sure, it's cool and dramatic when a purple worm grabs a character in its mouth and swallows him, but what about Dragons? Has anyone noticed that the ultra cool picture of Tordek in the red dragon's mouth vanished from the PHB? It used to be in the combat section (and I got it signed by Todd Lockwood at GenCon 2000), but it's gone now. It was a great pic, with Tordek clinging to the dragon's mouth as he hacks at it with his axe.

I love that picture too.

Then again, I still use the 3.0 rule book so I don't miss it either. Shame they took it out.

The other thing about big creatures is that the easiest way to kill them is to jump into their mouths with a +1 wounding dagger, since they all have much lower ACs on the inside. Cutting your way out is a sinch, especially compared to cutting your way in. I'm imagining there's a group of halfling assassins out there who specialize in "Into the Mouth" combat techniques.

Never thought of that.

I can just picture the "Little Listerine Brigade" going in for the kill

 

[Plane Sailing]

You touch on it in your initial post but for me, one of the stupidist rules is Swallow Whole.

Specifically the ability to cut your way out (!) and then the whole miraculously closes itself 'by muscular action'(!) and the creature can continue fighting without harm even though something has just done an 'Alien' and burst out of its stomach (!!!).

Yeah, right.

IMC the simple change was to make all instances of "swallow whole" into "chew" - you remain in the creatures mouth and it gets to do automatic bite damage every round, you can attempt to make grapple checks to get free or strike with light weapons etc. At least it can't bite anyone else while it is chewing you.

 

[Steverooo]

The "Spotting Invisible Opponents" rules suck, and also make no sense... You get a Spot check, at a whopping penalty, and if you Spot it, then you know that something's out there, but not where? Huh? How do you know?

If something invisible moves along, and you see it kick a rock, or stomp something flat(ter), then you should know right where it is. If you fail the Spot check, then you're unaware of where it is.

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The Trap rules are also terrible, especially as applied to deadfalls, pits, snares, and other Survival traps. One week/point of CR (and the cost) are just too much. Several snares can be set in an hour, including the more complicated ones involving triggers. In my campaigns, anyone with 1+ Rank(s) of Survival can set a snare as a DC:10 Wilderness Lore/Survival check. They can also use their Hide skill to hide it, and the Spot DC is equal to their Hide roll. This works well enough for us. The ridiculousness of the Trapping rules is especially easy to see when you consider covering a pre-existing pit trap...

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Pass Without Trace and the Druid's Traceless Passage are messed up since 3e, as well. It USED to be that casting this spell (or using this ability) made the area passed through magical, for the spell's duration. Now, there is simply no way to track the caster (Druid). I prefer the older method...

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The new Nature Sense also doesn't work, for me. +2 to Knowledge (Nature) & Survival? This replaces the abilities to identify any species of plant, and to judge the purity of water? The ability no longer does what it once did, nor what it should.

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The Ranger's Favored Enemy skills need some work, too. FE: Dragons, for instance, implies Knowledge (Arcana), but this is not a Ranger ability. Either all of the Knowledge skills have to be added (!), or (better yet), Rangers get to use their FE bonus and apply it to any Knowledge skill, including ones they don't have, when using it to gain info on their FEs. So, a Ranger with FE: Outsiders (Evil) +10 can apply that bonus to Knowledge (Planes) when gaining information about Demons, Devils, etc., and his +2 to Knowledge (Arcana) when trying to see if he knows anything about Dragons. If he had FE: Constructs +2, but no Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering, or whatever), he could still make a "skilled" attempt, with the +2 FE bonus.

This makes a lot more sense than:

"I am Feoran, enemy of the Platinum Dragon!"

"Oh really? Great! Glad to have you aboard! So, what can you tell us about her weaknesses?"

"Uhm... Nothing! I don't have any Knowledge (Arcana)!"

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Another pesky thing, to me, is the obvious inequity between the combat rules for PCs and creatures... The Troll moves up, claws, does damage. The unarmed PC strikes back, provokes an attack of opportunity... Even an unarmed Zombie gets an "armed" Slam attack!

The Troll gets Claw/Claw/Bite at -0/-0/-5. The PC, if he gets three attacks, is at -0/-5/-10.

Why can't PCs and monsters use the same rules? Unarmed attacks provoke no AoO, and they get two fists at -0/-0, with a kick or head-butt at -5? If they want to use a weapon, then they can, and make the other attacks at -5. I can't see the need for the two combat systems.

Plus, the "critters" get Feats like "Pounce", "Multi-attack", and "Slam" that PCs can't have! 'Ey, Mom! Eez no fair!