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<blockquote data-quote="TBoarder" data-source="post: 2238925" data-attributes="member: 272">Yes, they are that difficult.&nbsp; Grappling has become progressively more and more complicated since 2nd edition.The original 2nd edition rules were simple, but a bit unfair to the defender, with each successful hit giving a flat percentage chance of knocking the defender out.&nbsp; It had great flavor though, and most importantly, it was easy. Combat &amp; Tactics came along and the rules evolved to something similar to what we have now.&nbsp; Unfortunately even then, I had to eventually sift through the rules and write up a full page outline detailing grappling from point A to point Z.&nbsp; Once I had the outline made up, it was a piece of cake though.Now in 3rd edition and 3.5, even after 4 years, we still don't fully grasp grappling and what you can and can't do at each step of the grapple process.&nbsp; Like so many 3e and 3.5 rules, despite the simpler nature of the overall system, the subsystems are actually FAR more complicated than in ANY previous edition.&nbsp; Honestly, it's to the point where we would give up D&amp;D and switch to another system if not for the hundreds (possibly thousands) of PCs and NPCs that we'd have to convert over.In fact, the only thing keeping us with D&amp;D is Jamis Buck's random generator.&nbsp; We rarely roll new PCs up anymore due to their complexity, instead using the generator to quickly get us set up and moving.&nbsp; Only problem is, if you look at it's output, there's no grapple modifier listed on the character sheet... Yeah, I know it's easy to just figure it out and write it on, but for some reason we never do it.&nbsp; You can't blame *us* for missing yet another number or modifier though... there's far too many to begin with.Hrm... sorry, didn't mean to rant.&nbsp; Sorry. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="TBoarder, post: 2238925, member: 272"] Yes, they are that difficult. Grappling has become progressively more and more complicated since 2nd edition. The original 2nd edition rules were simple, but a bit unfair to the defender, with each successful hit giving a flat percentage chance of knocking the defender out. It had great flavor though, and most importantly, [I]it was easy.[/I] Combat & Tactics came along and the rules evolved to something similar to what we have now. Unfortunately even then, I had to eventually sift through the rules and write up a full page outline detailing grappling from point A to point Z. Once I had the outline made up, it was a piece of cake though. Now in 3rd edition and 3.5, even after 4 years, we still don't fully grasp grappling and what you can and can't do at each step of the grapple process. Like so many 3e and 3.5 rules, despite the simpler nature of the overall system, the subsystems are actually FAR more complicated than in ANY previous edition. Honestly, it's to the point where we would give up D&D and switch to another system if not for the hundreds (possibly thousands) of PCs and NPCs that we'd have to convert over. In fact, the only thing keeping us with D&D is Jamis Buck's random generator. We rarely roll new PCs up anymore due to their complexity, instead using the generator to quickly get us set up and moving. Only problem is, if you look at it's output, there's no grapple modifier listed on the character sheet... Yeah, I know it's easy to just figure it out and write it on, but for some reason we never do it. You can't blame *us* for missing yet another number or modifier though... there's far too many to begin with. Hrm... sorry, didn't mean to rant. Sorry. :) [/QUOTE]

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