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Message: <blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 6070299" data-attributes="member: 1210">4e is the first edition of D&D not to include all the 'core' stuff that the edition wasn't specifically excluding (e.g. there was no assassin in the 2e PH because there was no intention to have an assassin at all in 2e).Look at the 3e PH. It easily supported levels 1-20 for all the core classes at the time and added several new ones (see: sorcerer).I recognize that the game will not be able to support every single class, race and monster ever in D&D on release, but if the goal is to have all PH1 material in at the start, I completely disagree that it is impossible to get levels 1-20 in the initial release. I just don't buy it. Sure, if we want to have 4e-style write-ups where the fighter takes 40 pages or whatever, but I don't see that happening. There's no need for the PH to have support for dromite wardens and bladeling spellthieves; those have never been 'core' material. What I do expect the PH to be able to support is:HumanElfDwarfHalflingGnomeHalf-elfHalf-orcDragonbornTieflingBardBarbarianClericDruidFighterMonkRangerRogueAssassinWarlordSorcererWarlockPaladinWizardAnd yes, I completely expect that a full 20-level spread is viable. Every edition except for 4e- in which it was a conscious choice not to improve the game, but to promote a certain vision of a release schedule- has managed to be complete on release. As far as the idea that releasing an incomplete game will be good for sales, I'll just point at the one example we have of that philosophy in action- again, 4e- and note that it drove D&D players away in droves. Was the incompleteness of the game the main factor? I really doubt it. Was it a factor? Absolutely. I know people who were quite put off by the inability to play a gnome, druid, bard or sorcerer on release. They still gave it a chance, but 4e already had one strike in their eyes. Is it really a good business model to start off by saying, "We want all you guys back! But those of you playing (f'rex) gnomes and half-orcs, just wait a while and we'll have you covered!" Existing games MUST be able to convert easily into 5e if WotC seriously wants to capture the people playing those games. And capturing, and in many cases RE-capturing, those groups is, quite explicitly, one of 5e's major goals (if not its primary goal).</blockquote>

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