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<blockquote data-quote="TerraDave" data-source="post: 6070570" data-attributes="member: 22260">Its this.4E assumed that certain things would happen at pretty high levels, and then stretched out the &quot;sweet spot&quot; to make it easier to play at those levels. And it worked, kinda.In any case, we know, from many sources, that play in D&amp;D has generally taken place at low to mid levels. Its true know, it was true 30 years ago. This reflects both campaign longevity (or the lack thereof) and that higher level play tends to be harder for the DM and is often harder for the players. BUT, the idea of high level play remains an important motivator for both. So...do you assume that most groups aren't interested in high level stuff in terms of magic and opponents? Or they would be, if only they could get there (and maybe it was a little easier in terms of play to stay there). And what does high level mean? Compared to low level characters or creatures, 12th level ones (especially pre 4E) border on the god like. Capable of traveling immense distances, raising the dead, knowing long lost secrets, destroying armies (at least of low level soldiers and there mid level officers)...Do we need power beyond these?You don't need a level cap, but designers have to decide about both player power, when they get what, and who they fight. Orcus could be a 10th level opponent, 15th level, 20th level, 30th level...If they figure all this out, then we can talk about how many levels in the PHB.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="TerraDave, post: 6070570, member: 22260"] Its this. 4E assumed that certain things would happen at pretty high levels, and then stretched out the "sweet spot" to make it easier to play at those levels. And it worked, kinda. In any case, we know, from many sources, that play in D&D has generally taken place at low to mid levels. Its true know, it was true 30 years ago. This reflects both campaign longevity (or the lack thereof) and that higher level play tends to be harder for the DM and is often harder for the players. BUT, the idea of high level play remains an important motivator for both. So...do you assume that most groups aren't interested in high level stuff in terms of magic and opponents? Or they would be, if only they could get there (and maybe it was a little easier in terms of play to stay there). And what does high level mean? Compared to low level characters or creatures, 12th level ones (especially pre 4E) border on the god like. Capable of traveling immense distances, raising the dead, knowing long lost secrets, destroying armies (at least of low level soldiers and there mid level officers)...Do we need power beyond these? You don't need a level cap, but designers have to decide about both player power, when they get what, and who they fight. Orcus could be a 10th level opponent, 15th level, 20th level, 30th level... If they figure all this out, then we can talk about how many levels in the PHB. [/QUOTE]

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