What should the Realms Lose?

[The Grumpy Celt]

The Forgotten Realms are heading for a proverbial rebooting in the mechanical form of 4E and the story form of Mystra dying and so forth and so on.

Some like the idea while others are skeptical on the issue.

Those who are enthusiastic on the subject say the setting needs this, most often saying something to the effect of a need to trim the fat or to rid the setting of things it does not need. This may be true, but the idea of losing things the setting does not need is vague.

What are some things you think the setting needs to lose?

An often cited example is the Chosen – high powder heroes who (A) do all the work, leaving the work and/or (B) use and abuse the PCs.

What else do you think needs to go and why? Please be specific.

 

[delericho]

The major thing the setting needs to lose are the incompetent villains. Either the Red Wizards, the Cult of the Dragon and the Zhentarim need to get some real nastiness and, above all, effectiveness to them, or they need removed and replaced with organisations that do have these things.

 

[an_idol_mind]

While I'm against the idea of a rebooting, there are several things I would change if I were to run a Realms game these days.

One of the big ones would be the involvement of the gods. I think the Time of Troubles was a cool idea, but it opened the door to a lot of meddling by the deities. I think it would be better if the gods chose a hands-off approach and remained distant from the mortal world, acting through their followers rather than interfering directly.

I'd probably tone down the number of high-level NPCs, though not by paring down the Chosen or anything of the sort. In fact, I think the Chosen are a pretty good idea. But if you look through a lot of the Realms products, especially the 2nd edition stuff, there are literally dozens of epic characters in just about every major community. I don't mind having a 20th-level wizard living in Baldur's Gate, but a lot of these guys are one-line NPCs with no real background. My guideline would be that unless the NPC is interesting or central to a given plot, they don't need to be above level 10 or so.

I'd keep the Chosen around, but change their alignments a bit. Folks like Elminster would be Chaotic Neutral, and would be noticeably more senile. As the Chosen are hundreds of years old. they would feel quite detached from the world. Their personalities would be similar to dragons, which they are closest to in terms of power and lifespan. If anything, most of them would feel that they are beyond the mortal notions of good and evil.

One problem I have with a lot of Realms NPCs is that only the good-aligned ones (or the ones that are basically good-aligned, like Khelben) get a lot of detail. I'd flesh out the big bad guys a bit more, to point out that there is a reason why the Chosen or other big good guys don't just solve every problem out there.

One thing I wouldn't change about the Realms is its wackiness. Weird magic and whimsical characters makes the setting interesting to me. I'd want to keep that stuff intact, while tweaking some of the stuff that annoys me.

Oh, and I'd also challenge Ed Greenwood to please write at least one interesting and realistic female character. Also, I'd ask him to go against the grain of his usual writing style and please have her keep her clothes on for at least 10 pages.

 

[Tharkun]

Retire the Ubernpcs that are around in FR. Then make new ones but aren't like Elminster.

 

[boerngrim]

Oh, and I'd also challenge Ed Greenwood to please write at least one interesting and realistic female character. Also, I'd ask him to go against the grain of his usual writing style and please have her keep her clothes on for at least 10 pages.

Hi,
I'm curious as to what you would find to be an interesting and realistic female character. A peasant wench with no rights? That would be more realistic, but not very interesting. I've always found it interesting and cool that many of the toughest and most pwerful characters in the Realms are women.
Thanks.

 

[Tarek]

Maybe, but Ed Greenwood seems to write gratuitous nude scenes for female characters rather frequently.

And by "realistic" I believe that means psychologically realistic. Many of Ed Greenwood's heroines end up having extremely similar (and exhibitionistic) behaviors.

 

[an_idol_mind]

Hi,
I'm curious as to what you would find to be an interesting and realistic female character. A peasant wench with no rights? That would be more realistic, but not very interesting. I've always found it interesting and cool that many of the toughest and most pwerful characters in the Realms are women.
Thanks.

I consider an interesting and realistic female character to be the same as an interesting and realistic male character: a character I can look at and see a unique and interesting personality. All of Greenwood's female characters seem very much alike to me, in that they're usually either sidekicks or motherly figures to the men. And I don't think there's a single woman in any of his books that doesn't take her clothes off at some point in the story.

Power level and social standing have no real bearing on my statement. I'm quite fine with the women of the Realms kicking ass; I just wish they were more interesting while they did it.

 

[sniffles]

I wouldn't mind seeing the high-level NPCs step back a little, although I wouldn't necessarily want to get rid of the Chosen. They're like Superman - very powerful, but they can't be everywhere. That's what PCs are for.

Also, a pet peeve of mine is the presence of the Egyptian pantheon smack in the middle of an otherwise purely fantasy, mostly FR-specific cosmology. It just bugs me. I don't want real-world stuff in there.

I'd like to lose the "everything in the Underdark is evil" stereotype, too.

 

[ephemeron]

An often cited example is the Chosen – high powder heroes who (A) do all the work, leaving the work and/or (B) use and abuse the PCs.

I don't think there's a way to fix that problem while keeping the Realms as a setting for novels as well as games. Published fiction has to have protagonists, but the existence of NPC protagonists is a problem for a game setting.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Death to Elmunchkin! Death to the Chosen! Death to the Gods!

Blow it all up, you maniacs!