Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What spells should have had the ritual tag, but don't?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 7629092" data-attributes="member: 6704184"><p>No, that is false. </p><p></p><p>Firstly, the characters that can gain Mage Armor without taking a feat will have stats that are either more important than dex, or just as important. </p><p></p><p>Secondly, even if we imagine the sort of CharOp edge case that the game should never balance around, and assume a character with Mage Armor who got it from their class, but isn't putting anything on the same or higher priority level as dex, they won't have a 20 until level 4 at the earliest, and level 8 is much more likely. </p><p></p><p>So, what, they're 1 AC above Studded Leather. Scary. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> Except most characters won't have a 20 Dex until noticeably later. The fact that two characters can both eventually reach the same AC does not mean that they are the same. for the erroneous statement, "mage armor=plate armor", to be true, it would have to provide 18 AC to any character who uses it, without having to dedicate 2 ASIs on top of a feat to get Mage Armor as a ritual. (classes that have mage armor and have ritual casting are going for heavy armor with extreme rarity, so the majority of characters who are actually relevant to a comparison between Mage Armor and Plate are pretty much Fighters. And melee dex fighters can get to that AC level without Mage Armor. Archers too, actually, if they take Defensive instead of Archery, but that's niche. </p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>No, it makes it better for classes that lack medium and heavy armor, which it already is, and always will be. So, it doesn't change that dynamic at all. Your argument may as well be that the Dual Wielder feat is broken because that +1 to AC allows a Dex character to get the same AC as plate, thus making dex and dual weilding better for half the classes. Yet, no one I've ever seen in any forum considers that feat too strong, and most consider it not strong enough. </p><p></p><p> This is the same issue and argument as Hunter's Mark and Hex and Eldritch Blast. I don't care. They didn't make them class features, they made them spells. It is what it is. Making it a ritual does a similar thing, which is fine, and also allows other gish type characters to look and feel right for the player. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The game isn't as reserved with AC boosts. Dual Wielder gives +1 AC. There are plenty of other sources of AC boosts. This is a molehill. </p><p></p><p> if the designers agreed with you, there would be as few AC boosts as there are attack boosts. </p><p></p><p></p><p>18 AC is easy to get. Every heavy armor guy with a shield reaches it without plate, and surpasses it with. +1 armor is uncommon. The most common magic item type in the DMG. </p><p>5e isn't intended to be as tightly numerically balanced as you seem to think. </p><p></p><p> Better to combine medium armor proficiency and medium armor mastery into 1 feat, possibly still a half feat.</p><p></p><p> So, the only characters who can get AC 20 with Mage Armor are the guys who are already, at most, 1 feat away from it? Seems pretty fair to me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="doctorbadwolf, post: 7629092, member: 6704184"] No, that is false. Firstly, the characters that can gain Mage Armor without taking a feat will have stats that are either more important than dex, or just as important. Secondly, even if we imagine the sort of CharOp edge case that the game should never balance around, and assume a character with Mage Armor who got it from their class, but isn't putting anything on the same or higher priority level as dex, they won't have a 20 until level 4 at the earliest, and level 8 is much more likely. So, what, they're 1 AC above Studded Leather. Scary. Except most characters won't have a 20 Dex until noticeably later. The fact that two characters can both eventually reach the same AC does not mean that they are the same. for the erroneous statement, "mage armor=plate armor", to be true, it would have to provide 18 AC to any character who uses it, without having to dedicate 2 ASIs on top of a feat to get Mage Armor as a ritual. (classes that have mage armor and have ritual casting are going for heavy armor with extreme rarity, so the majority of characters who are actually relevant to a comparison between Mage Armor and Plate are pretty much Fighters. And melee dex fighters can get to that AC level without Mage Armor. Archers too, actually, if they take Defensive instead of Archery, but that's niche. No, it makes it better for classes that lack medium and heavy armor, which it already is, and always will be. So, it doesn't change that dynamic at all. Your argument may as well be that the Dual Wielder feat is broken because that +1 to AC allows a Dex character to get the same AC as plate, thus making dex and dual weilding better for half the classes. Yet, no one I've ever seen in any forum considers that feat too strong, and most consider it not strong enough. This is the same issue and argument as Hunter's Mark and Hex and Eldritch Blast. I don't care. They didn't make them class features, they made them spells. It is what it is. Making it a ritual does a similar thing, which is fine, and also allows other gish type characters to look and feel right for the player. The game isn't as reserved with AC boosts. Dual Wielder gives +1 AC. There are plenty of other sources of AC boosts. This is a molehill. if the designers agreed with you, there would be as few AC boosts as there are attack boosts. 18 AC is easy to get. Every heavy armor guy with a shield reaches it without plate, and surpasses it with. +1 armor is uncommon. The most common magic item type in the DMG. 5e isn't intended to be as tightly numerically balanced as you seem to think. Better to combine medium armor proficiency and medium armor mastery into 1 feat, possibly still a half feat. So, the only characters who can get AC 20 with Mage Armor are the guys who are already, at most, 1 feat away from it? Seems pretty fair to me. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What spells should have had the ritual tag, but don't?
Top