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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What the warlord needs in 5e and how to make it happen.
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7042070" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>Y'know, I think it's these conversations that make me want to bang my head against a wall repeatedly. They are just so incredibly frustrating from my point of view. Take a look at the arguments, from my point of view:</p><p></p><p>1. Warlords aren't important enough. There just isn't enough demand for warlords to make them an issue. Seriously? We just had <em>Favored Souls</em> updated to 5e. It's not like updating fairly esoteric older edition elements isn't being done on a regular basis. Numerous DMsGuild attempts and the fact that we do have a number of official WotC classes borrowing on the theme - Mastermind Rogues, Bannerets, Purple Dragon Knights - means that obviously there is some demand. Never minding that you get this kind of go around thread every three months or so, until it either gets closed down or shoved into the forum ghettos.</p><p></p><p>2. Warlords are OP. Despite numerous analysis showing that they really, really weren't, you STILL see this one trotted out. It's baffling. 4e was an extremely well balanced game. Probably the most well balanced of any version of D&D and this was actually put forth as a strike against the edition, that it was more concerned with chasing balance than making a good game. Yet, despite all that, apparently, they completely failed and Warlords <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/paranoid.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":uhoh:" title="Paranoid :uhoh:" data-shortname=":uhoh:" /> are the OP class? Yet, even though this makes zero logical sense, we still have to fight this particular battle every single time we talk about warlords.</p><p></p><p>3. Warlords don't fit in 5e mechanics. This one is probably the one that baffles and frustrates me the most. Good grief, we almost all agree that you can get about 60% of a warlord right now, just using the PHB. Virtually every single element of a warlord, save perhaps non-magical healing (and even then, fighters can do that), exists in the game already, just not under a single class.</p><p></p><p>4. Warlords don't fit in a D&D game. We shouldn't have a class based around the idea of "inspiring" other characters. Again, we've already got a bard in the game that does exactly that. Plus a paladin who can do that and a Battlemaster who can DIRECTLY FORCE your character to take actions - bonus movement, bonus attacks, advantage on attacks, etc. But, apparently, as soon as we use the word "warlord" people develop selective amnesia and claim that none of these things exist.</p><p></p><p>If we could actually just discuss the bloody class and the mechanics without having the peanut gallery repeatedly trying to ram their play preferences down our throats, that would be much appreciated.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7042070, member: 22779"] Y'know, I think it's these conversations that make me want to bang my head against a wall repeatedly. They are just so incredibly frustrating from my point of view. Take a look at the arguments, from my point of view: 1. Warlords aren't important enough. There just isn't enough demand for warlords to make them an issue. Seriously? We just had [i]Favored Souls[/i] updated to 5e. It's not like updating fairly esoteric older edition elements isn't being done on a regular basis. Numerous DMsGuild attempts and the fact that we do have a number of official WotC classes borrowing on the theme - Mastermind Rogues, Bannerets, Purple Dragon Knights - means that obviously there is some demand. Never minding that you get this kind of go around thread every three months or so, until it either gets closed down or shoved into the forum ghettos. 2. Warlords are OP. Despite numerous analysis showing that they really, really weren't, you STILL see this one trotted out. It's baffling. 4e was an extremely well balanced game. Probably the most well balanced of any version of D&D and this was actually put forth as a strike against the edition, that it was more concerned with chasing balance than making a good game. Yet, despite all that, apparently, they completely failed and Warlords :uhoh: are the OP class? Yet, even though this makes zero logical sense, we still have to fight this particular battle every single time we talk about warlords. 3. Warlords don't fit in 5e mechanics. This one is probably the one that baffles and frustrates me the most. Good grief, we almost all agree that you can get about 60% of a warlord right now, just using the PHB. Virtually every single element of a warlord, save perhaps non-magical healing (and even then, fighters can do that), exists in the game already, just not under a single class. 4. Warlords don't fit in a D&D game. We shouldn't have a class based around the idea of "inspiring" other characters. Again, we've already got a bard in the game that does exactly that. Plus a paladin who can do that and a Battlemaster who can DIRECTLY FORCE your character to take actions - bonus movement, bonus attacks, advantage on attacks, etc. But, apparently, as soon as we use the word "warlord" people develop selective amnesia and claim that none of these things exist. If we could actually just discuss the bloody class and the mechanics without having the peanut gallery repeatedly trying to ram their play preferences down our throats, that would be much appreciated. [/QUOTE]
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