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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7049105" data-attributes="member: 996">3 att/rnd, average of 2 encouters per short rest, so you're assuming 4-round combats?  Oh, Action Surge....Ok, not unreasonable estimate, but it's really up to that 20%, depending on the maneuvers called for by the situation.  The BM has 3 clearly warlord-ish maneuvers (one of them even named after a Warlord at-will), out of 16 or so to choose from, and at 11lth level will have chosen 7.  So only half his available maneuvers will be 'doing something warlord-y' - if he willfully ignores the others, obviously, he's under-performing, if he doesn't, his performance will be something less than 20% 'warlord-y.'  Nod.  At this point, the Warlord can't work as a fighter archetype.  Had the fighter been designed differently, though, given 5e's escape from the confinement of class-Role boxes, it could have been expanded to cover the Warlord.  For instance, it could have used a maneuver system far more elaborate than the BM's, with enough warlord-appropriate maneuvers to fill out the various sorts possible 4e.  It might also have covered the 'spell-less Ranger' a lot better in that case.  Even as it is, the 5e fighter covers the ground of the 0D&D and AD&D fighters, the Essentials Slayer, some 3.5 fighter builds including dedicated archers (that 4e was forced by Role consideration to cleave off to the Ranger), and, with the addition of the Knight archetype in UA, the 3.5PHII/Essentials Knight, as well.  It's not like the fighter's exactly falling down on the job, either.  There's just too big a job still needing to be done. Within their class-specific features they can, but only to a small degree, and mainly chargen/level-up, not overnight like a Wizard.   Every 5e character has some options something like 'utility,' they can improvise actions and make checks.  So the fighter isn't deprived of such, he could certainly decline his high-DPR extra attacks and take an action anyone else could have done, which is trading damage for utility (even support, there's the help action, for instance), just not a very even trade, at all.</blockquote>

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