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<blockquote data-quote="mellored" data-source="post: 7060085" data-attributes="member: 6801209">I'm on the fence about using actual feats though.&nbsp; On one hand, it covers the &quot;why can't anyone do this&quot; aspect.&nbsp; Nothing stops a wizard from grabbing one and granting attacks (or whichever).On the other, it can limit the what the features actually are.&nbsp; Since each one will be available to each class, and available at level 1.&nbsp; So you can't have high level maneuvers.&nbsp; And you want to avoid feat trees.Those all look good.This is the biggest point for me.Between pacts, patrons, invocations, and spells, you can make a lot of different kinds of warlocks.IMO, it's less about constraints, and more about a having a role or identity.&nbsp; I think sub-classes are enough to provide that, but leave the rest open for customization.Like saying your a divination wizard gives you a identity.&nbsp; But it doesn't stop you from spending every slot casting fireballs and hypnotic patterns.For instance, you might have....Open base class with generic name (warrior, fighting-man).5 features from a sub-class with a theme and evocative name that gives you your role (guardian, myrmidon, brawler, silver dragon knight, battle butler, ect...).5 ASI5 chooseable maneuvers (at-will - cantrip-esk abilities)5 chooseable talents (passive invocations)So if you choose to play a brawler you have an identity, but 75% of your abilities are open to choice.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mellored, post: 7060085, member: 6801209"] I'm on the fence about using actual feats though. On one hand, it covers the "why can't anyone do this" aspect. Nothing stops a wizard from grabbing one and granting attacks (or whichever). On the other, it can limit the what the features actually are. Since each one will be available to each class, and available at level 1. So you can't have high level maneuvers. And you want to avoid feat trees. Those all look good. This is the biggest point for me. Between pacts, patrons, invocations, and spells, you can make a lot of different kinds of warlocks. IMO, it's less about constraints, and more about a having a role or identity. I think sub-classes are enough to provide that, but leave the rest open for customization. Like saying your a divination wizard gives you a identity. But it doesn't stop you from spending every slot casting fireballs and hypnotic patterns. For instance, you might have.... Open base class with generic name (warrior, fighting-man). 5 features from a sub-class with a theme and evocative name that gives you your role (guardian, myrmidon, brawler, silver dragon knight, battle butler, ect...). 5 ASI 5 chooseable maneuvers (at-will - cantrip-esk abilities) 5 chooseable talents (passive invocations) So if you choose to play a brawler you have an identity, but 75% of your abilities are open to choice. [/QUOTE]

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