What was Gandalf's XP level?
- Thread starter Driddle
- Start date
Ankh-Morpork Guard
First Post
Ahhh...its been a while since we've had one of these. I'll use my usual answer.
No, we can't.
No, we can't.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
You have to know the stats for the base Istari creature first, before adding class levels. 
Gentlegamer
Adventurer
5th level Magic-user
Kid Charlemagne
I am the Very Model of a Modern Moderator
I'll toss in my two cents before retreating from the thread. It's difficult to gauge Gandalf's power level by his actions in LoTR, because he was expressly forbidden to use his full power. He was there to help men (and elves, and dwarves, and hobbits) overthrow Sauron, not to directly oppose him.
Inconsequenti-AL
Breaks Games
Impossible to say... but here's my take.
Given what he does in the book and to a greater extent the films: High level paladin (~17th) - with the ring as a fire linked magic item. He's got a few spells, but spends most of the time chopping stuff up with that sword. Has a very high int and the educated feat... Got a sneaking suspicion that his 'robe' is actually +5 Heavy Fortification glammered full plate.
Given what he does in the book and to a greater extent the films: High level paladin (~17th) - with the ring as a fire linked magic item. He's got a few spells, but spends most of the time chopping stuff up with that sword. Has a very high int and the educated feat... Got a sneaking suspicion that his 'robe' is actually +5 Heavy Fortification glammered full plate.
Celebrim
Legend
It's virtually impossible to say. At one time I made a complete list of the spells (in D&D terms) Gandalf had actually used over the course of the game, and it's actually pretty impressive. But even if Gandalf were a high level Wizard in D&D terms, there would be quite a few things which you can do in D&D which apparantly cannot be done by Wizards in Middle Earth - for example teleport. The other thing to consider is that Gandalf is not human, but in fact (in D&D terms) a celestial in disguise.
One consideration to make is that Gandalf was capable of facing a Balrog in single combat. How impressive this is depends on how potent you consider Balrogs to be, but certainly they were one of the most dangerous things in Middle Earth. If we assume that '20th level' characters existed historically (if not necessarily at the time of the ring war), then its pretty safe to assume that Gandalf's ECL is 20 or higher.
But really, this all depends on what game system you plan to use, what your particular preferences are as a DM, and so forth. Fifth level wizard is about as low as I've ever heard suggested, but its arguably possible depending on how you interpret various events. I personally wouldn't press for it, because he's at least the equal of the Witch King (at minimum Wraith + levels in some character class), and it would be extremely difficult to right up the Balrog in such a way that it was an overwhelming challenge for the whole Fellowship even though dozens of orcs were not and yet a 5th level wizard was its equal. On the other extreme, I've seen people suggest that not only was Gandalf epic level with suggested ECL as high as 30, but that so was Aragorn. I wouldn't push for that either.
One consideration to make is that Gandalf was capable of facing a Balrog in single combat. How impressive this is depends on how potent you consider Balrogs to be, but certainly they were one of the most dangerous things in Middle Earth. If we assume that '20th level' characters existed historically (if not necessarily at the time of the ring war), then its pretty safe to assume that Gandalf's ECL is 20 or higher.
But really, this all depends on what game system you plan to use, what your particular preferences are as a DM, and so forth. Fifth level wizard is about as low as I've ever heard suggested, but its arguably possible depending on how you interpret various events. I personally wouldn't press for it, because he's at least the equal of the Witch King (at minimum Wraith + levels in some character class), and it would be extremely difficult to right up the Balrog in such a way that it was an overwhelming challenge for the whole Fellowship even though dozens of orcs were not and yet a 5th level wizard was its equal. On the other extreme, I've seen people suggest that not only was Gandalf epic level with suggested ECL as high as 30, but that so was Aragorn. I wouldn't push for that either.
Gentlegamer
Adventurer
I think it would be interesting to try to figure out Gandalf's abilities as an avatar in the Lejendary Adventures game system . . .
WizarDru
Adventurer
There are two schools of thought:
1) Gandalf is a relatively low-powered character in a low-powered world. Movie Gandalf could easily have been a celestial bard, since inspiring people was his main power, using a powerful rod and magic ring when his own inherent powers failed to suffice. He could also have been, based on the collective LotR and the Hobbit, a wizard or druid.
2) Gandalf is an extremely high-powered being who chooses not to use his powers, because that would violate his mission for the Maia, and rarely calls upon his strongest powers for any reason. Hence, he can engage in melee with a Balrog and hordes of orcs sans armor...but he only reveals his magic powers when faced with the Witchking of Angmar himself or the collective Nazgul. He might be a wizard, cleric or druid, but I might favor druid, personally (sans the metal weapon restriciton).
Colonel Hardisson made a strong-case for scenario 1 and did a complete Middle-Earth d20 conversion with most of the heroes of the saga being 5-8th level, iirc. Of course, Dragon #1 (was it?) had the famed essay about Gandalf only being 4th level.
1) Gandalf is a relatively low-powered character in a low-powered world. Movie Gandalf could easily have been a celestial bard, since inspiring people was his main power, using a powerful rod and magic ring when his own inherent powers failed to suffice. He could also have been, based on the collective LotR and the Hobbit, a wizard or druid.
2) Gandalf is an extremely high-powered being who chooses not to use his powers, because that would violate his mission for the Maia, and rarely calls upon his strongest powers for any reason. Hence, he can engage in melee with a Balrog and hordes of orcs sans armor...but he only reveals his magic powers when faced with the Witchking of Angmar himself or the collective Nazgul. He might be a wizard, cleric or druid, but I might favor druid, personally (sans the metal weapon restriciton).
Colonel Hardisson made a strong-case for scenario 1 and did a complete Middle-Earth d20 conversion with most of the heroes of the saga being 5-8th level, iirc. Of course, Dragon #1 (was it?) had the famed essay about Gandalf only being 4th level.
