D&D 4E What was Paizo thinking? 3.75 the 4E clone?

[Warbringer]

The man went to TSR and went through their records. He found no customer feedback, surveys, profiles, or any information that showed TSR listened to their market. These are facts.

Not to mention the fact he brokered the damn deal that got WoTC TSR, technically by buying LOFR, which for about 30 seconds owned TSR

 

[Raven Crowking]

Where, exactly, did Ryan Dancey claim that he "found no customer feedback, surveys, profiles, or any information that showed TSR listened to their market"?

The fact is that Ryan Dancey made an assertation about what he saw, and an assertation about the conclusions he reached from what he saw. Nothing more, nothing less. These are facts. The rest is supposition.

RC

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

It is equally unlikely that, unless the WotC purchase of TSR included the purchase of TSR's market research, that TSR simply left it there out of the non-bitter goodness of their hearts for Mr. Dancey to find.

Why wouldn't their market research not be part of the purchause of TSR? It belonged to TSR, after all!

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

I wanted to post this here.http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/pathfinder_rpg_group/
it's a pathfinder yahoo group drop by and share your thoughts.

now carry on .

 

[The Little Raven]

It is equally unlikely that, unless the WotC purchase of TSR included the purchase of TSR's market research, that TSR simply left it there out of the non-bitter goodness of their hearts for Mr. Dancey to find.

Of course they didn't leave it out of the goodness of their hearts. Wizards purchased it, along with everything else the company owned.

Where, exactly, did Ryan Dancey claim that he "found no customer feedback, surveys, profiles, or any information that showed TSR listened to their market"?

http://web.archive.org/web/20040530094717/http://atlasofadventure.com/Archive/TSR1997Buyout.asp

It's a good read. It really shows you how mismanaged TSR was, and why it fell apart, and makes it very clear that Dancey had access to EVERYTHING.

 

[Firevalkyrie]

It is equally unlikely that, unless the WotC purchase of TSR included the purchase of TSR's market research, that TSR simply left it there out of the non-bitter goodness of their hearts for Mr. Dancey to find.

When a company is purchased by another company, its records become the property of the purchasing company.

 

[Raven Crowking]

When a company is purchased by another company, its records become the property of the purchasing company.

Obviously, you must be a lawyer who handles these types of cases to speak with such authority?

I certainly wouldn't argue that TSR's financial records at the date of purchase did not become the property of WotC, but unless WotC stipulated certain data be present, there is no certainty that it would be part of TSR's records at that time.

In another thread, Mr. Gygax mentioned things he was working on that he removed from his desk prior to being ousted by TSR, which were not specifically purchased by TSR.

Are you actually saying that you believe that it is unlikely that TSR shredded or removed non-critical documentation prior to sale and transfer? Despite knowing that the previous transfer of ownership (from Gygax) was accompanied by similar behavior? If so, your understanding of human nature is radically different than my own.

RC

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Obviously, you must be a lawyer who handles these types of cases to speak with such authority?

I certainly wouldn't argue that TSR's financial records at the date of purchase did not become the property of WotC, but unless WotC stipulated certain data be present, there is no certainty that it would be part of TSR's records at that time.

In another thread, Mr. Gygax mentioned things he was working on that he removed from his desk prior to being ousted by TSR, which were not specifically purchased by TSR.

Are you actually saying that you believe that it is unlikely that TSR shredded or removed non-critical documentation prior to sale and transfer? Despite knowing that the previous transfer of ownership (from Gygax) was accompanied by similar behavior? If so, your understanding of human nature is radically different than my own.

RC

Well, if they saw their marketing data as non-critical, I would say that the assumption that TSR didn't care for it that much is probably true.

There is more to marketing or feedback data then just the results. There are also financial transaction involved with it - you have to spend money on feedback cards, you have to spend money for bringing in focus groups and having their behavior studied. Unless they were also really lousy in managing their financial paper-work and book-keeping their expenses, there should have been some data about them at least doing it.

 

[occam]

From what I am seeing, Pathfinder is not simply "3.5 reprinted", but is in fact "4e as we wish it had been".....i.e., a 4e that builds on what has come before, rather than a 4e that does not.

Yes, exactly. A bad idea, IMHO, for a product that supposedly has compatibility with the previous rules set as one of its main selling points. So far, the PF Alpha looks less compatible with 3.5 than 3.5 was with 3.0. We'll see how the development process goes, but I expect that the divergence will only increase in most ways.

 

[Fifth Element]

Are you actually saying that you believe that it is unlikely that TSR shredded or removed non-critical documentation prior to sale and transfer? Despite knowing that the previous transfer of ownership (from Gygax) was accompanied by similar behavior? If so, your understanding of human nature is radically different than my own.

The situation is completely different. Mr. Gygax was forced out of TSR. WotC was simply purchasing TSR, and all of its assets. So far as we know, there was nothing acrimonious about WotC's purchase of TSR.