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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kenmarable" data-source="post: 4595879" data-attributes="member: 40359">I think you miss my point. It isn't that they disagreed with it or thought it was a bad system, it's just that for someone who has never gamed before, there is a lot of rules to learn. Having a "sometimes you want to roll high, sometimes you want to roll low" system makes that learning curve steeper than it needs to be. Of course, someone completely not playing because of it is a wee bit of an overreaction. Thankfully it never kept anyone away from any game I was in, just used up a lot more time than we should have explaining and re-explaining while people learned.Of course, just to rant for a minute, having gamed a long time with and without THAC0 and seeing the value of 3.0 and on's "always roll high", I say it is bad design. The roll of the dice is a simple randomness tool. It's not modeling anything in the real world other than maybe "luck". It's a random number generator, and a system where sometimes you want high random numbers and sometimes you want low random numbers detracts from the system with more complexity and steepening of the learning curve far, far more than it adds to the system. More game time was lost introducing new players to 2e than to 3e and that is not good. (However, first PC creation took far longer in 3e, so it's a trade off, but at least that didn't eat into actual play time.) After all, just what is the benefit of wanting different random numbers? Should I tell my kids when playing Chutes and Ladders, that if they start on a white square, then move the number of spaces they roll, and if they start on a blue square they subtract what they roll from 7 and move that many? After all, that's how numbers are in the real world (and they can get some math practice). <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I'm sure they would "house rule" that out as quick as possible because it's pointless and adds unnecessary complexity! I'm exaggerating, of course, but in both cases the dice don't model anything - they are just a randomness mechanic to add some fun and variation into the game. That randomness mechanic should be kept as simple as possible in my opinion.Sorry, not sure where that rant came from. Guess it's my final goodbye to THAC0 and 2e's wacky saving throws that I've been keeping inside for years. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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