What was the reason for Demihuman level and class limits in AD&D?

[Ariosto]

What seems reasonable depends on one's concept of elves. I agree that they are pretty odd in AD&D -- but for really weird, try the "today a magician, tomorrow a fighter" approach in the original set!

Actually, I think they fit well the impression I got from The Hobbit, The Broken Sword, and other fictional sources. Even the eldest are not by any evidence I recall matches for the most powerful humans (which even Wizards apparently were from internal evidence in The Hobbit). If one considers a human making good use of such longevity, one might expect a bit more -- although one might need to start forgetting things to make room for new memories before very long. The fey folk, though, seem not to change so much or so rapidly. They are also for the most part reclusive.

I could see slowing advancement for player-characters, but not to such an extent as to require game-decades per level. As things stand, they are likely to retire from human affairs while they have much life left.

 

[Glyfair]

Saying it had nothing to do with any concept of "game balance" seems awfully revisionist to me. I am certain we have a somewhat different understanding of "balance" nowadays, but the thought was there.

Also, saying there is one reason for anything would be a mistake as well. I am sure there are many reasons for such rules.

 

[Belorin]

One reason was that Dwarves, Elves, etc, got to multiclass and humans could only dual class which meant giving up your first class until you passed it in levels of your second class.


Bel

 

[Nikosandros]

I strongly dislike demi-human level limits, for many of the reasons posted above. They do a very poor job as a balancing mechanism between the races and a world can easily be humano-centric by fiat... who cares about following strict rules for NPCs anyway...

What I'm currently doing in AD&D is giving humans a 25% XP bonus (I don't use prime requisite bonus, but that's the topic for another thread...)

 

[Ariosto]

Yes, 25% should be pretty significant at high levels, after XP requirements flatten out. I figure that should keep a single-classed human about a level ahead of a single-classed non-human at that point (two, three, or maybe four if they rise far enough; I doubt that anyone would go more than 20 past "name" level). A multi-classed character would fall further behind in each. That might not be the best balance -- How many levels are the advantages really worth, especially at high levels? -- but it certainly seems worth a try.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

I always used race/level limits, and never had a problem with them.

I find the philosophical notion that humans - alone of all species - have unlimited potential in any area to be rather appealing.

I also think that, implicitly, the classic setting premise is one where elves and dwarves are "fading;" the era of Man has taken hold, or is about to. I suspect (but have no evidence to prove) that this may have informed the choice to limit demi-human advancement.

 

[jdrakeh]

Basically in AD&D the theory was that being amazing at certain levels was balanced by being horrible at others (see the magic-user class).

This has always been my understanding, as well. It might just be me, but looking at how said limits are imposed, this seems pretty obvious.

 

[Bumbles]

I find the philosophical notion that humans - alone of all species - have unlimited potential in any area to be rather appealing.

That's always struck me as so chauvinistic as to be distinctly unappealing. It's like bad Sci-Fi where all the humans are good guys, and the aliens are BEM. Or something. Even though the races don't, to the best of my knowledge exist, it just feels wrong to make out that humans are somehow better like that.

Oh well, if players didn't want non-human PC's I'd probably have all-human settings by default anyway. Mostly because creating a half dozen or so options is way too much trouble even when I crib a few here and there. But a few times I've not even had humans just to do something different.

 

[Orius]

I remember from the games back then, that we just ingnored the level caps.

I think a lot of groups ignored them, which then made them entirely pointless.

well, at least in BECMI, if you played low-level games, the elf was always the superior choice (spells like a MU, weapon and armor selection of a fighter and d6 HD). If one could reap up the necessary attributescores, there was no reason not to play an elf!!!!! The same does NOT apply to dwarves and halflings, as they were not much bettter then the fighter respectively!!!!!

That's a good point too. To have a tweaked-out multiclass demihuman, you also needed to have the right prerequisite scores. This also assumed rolling the straight 3d6 for your scores. So if you were using 3d6 stat generation, you'd have more plain vanilla human fighters and stuff like that because the dice didn't roll in your favor.

But then when you throw in 4d6 rolls (which everyone did), it's easier to get the pre-requisites, and then expand the level limits well above name level like 2e did, then the whole system seems stupid, because now you've stacked the odds in your favor.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

That's always struck me as so chauvinistic as to be distinctly unappealing. It's like bad Sci-Fi where all the humans are good guys, and the aliens are BEM.

I know what you're saying, and I agree; it's absolutely chauvinistic.

I also think it's consistent with the literary/mythical idea of the Hero (who is human [or a demigod], but not an elf). Human champion overcomes all obstacles etc. Achilles is only a 15th-level Fighter in 1e Deities and Demigods.

It depends on the kind of mood you want to evoke in your game, I guess. And I hadn't necessarily considered myself an apologist for the notion of level caps until today, but they do make a certain kind of sense. Demi-humans in 1e (for me, at least) still straddle the threshold between "monster" and "person", although they fall closer to the idea of "person" than say, an otyugh.

I feel almost that humans are entitled to progress in class levels, whereas for demi-humans it's more a privilege: they are half-monster.

Even the name, demi-human...