What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[Jd Smith1]

Which is usually done in self-defense or in defense of others, or to defeat evil beings.

Unless your games primarily have people murdering innocents in cold blood, or torturing unarmed foes, this is a really bad analogy.

Do you think violent death somehow looks less horrific because the being on the receiving end has a different moral code than you? Or was drafted by a leader who shares a different moral code? Or simply a different culture?

You're really, really reaching here.

So... we have to include slavery because if we don't, it discriminates against people who were enslaved? A D&D game without slavery somehow discriminates against present day Black people?

Seriously? Do you actually think this is a legitimate argument?

I don't play D&D, firstly.

Secondly, every race has had members enslaved. And still do. Why did you suddenly fixate on one particular group? Is that the first thing you think of when you see us? As slaves?

That is deeply disturbing.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Technically (and historically) so is slavery. The US experience of slavery is not sum total of history.

Well, and Latin America and the Caribbean in general. Really, most semi-modern instances of slavery are largely African or indigenous peoples.

 

[Charlaquin]

No, and I wasn't really suggesting that we do. All I'll say is that safe is way over rated. Kids like scary, they like transgressive. Safe? Not so much. That's obviously different that safe in terms of groups, which is important.

Err… Safety is what makes some scary and transgressive things enjoyable. Kids (and adults) like horror movies and games, haunted houses, rollercoasters, etc. because they simulate scary stuff in a safe way. But if the slasher in the movie or the monster in the haunted house could actually hurt you? It wouldn’t be fun any more.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Which is usually done in self-defense or in defense of others, or to defeat evil beings.

You and @Justice and Rule keep making this error and it is baffling.
The PCs are not the only murderers in a D&D game.

It is like you positing that others are suggesting PCs must be/want to be slavers.

Unless your games primarily have people murdering innocents in cold blood, or torturing unarmed foes, this is a really bad analogy.

How do you think bad guys get into power? The very first AP Hoard of the Dragon Queen has you rescue a tortured half-elf Harper in the 2nd chapter. The first chapter has mercenaries and kobolds hired by the cultists pillage a town, presumably killing innocents in cold blood in the process.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I mean, we're literally in one right now. It's being critiqued for being used badly, with some of us saying it shouldn't be used so flippantly. Yet here we are, with people acting like we're taking colors out of the spectrum when it's more that we don't want people to constantly overuse a single one.

Not really. And would you mind showing me where it has been overused? Are there other entire settings with a strong slavery vibe other than Dark Sun? I really do not know. And just so you know I haven't even played Dark Sun.
Also, Earth's history and mythology from where inspiration is derived from for D&D is riddled with slavery and atrocities.
Furthermore, some are saying that we should be removing the colour altogether.

I'm absolutely aware of it. @Umbran already identified the whataboutism you're trying to pull.

That has been dealt with.

 

[Hussar]

Technically (and historically) so is slavery. The US experience of slavery is not sum total of history.

And being technically correct is of course the best kind of correct.

The point being not too many people were institutionally murdered over the course of several centuries. The same is not true of slavery.

So could we perhaps dispense with the false equivalency?

And really, at its heart, violence in the game isn’t a problem because no one who wants to play DnD is being made to feel excluded because of the presence of a combat system.

I know people have been pointing out the examples of mythic Africa in DnD, but that was always my point. Unrestrained creativity hasn’t actually led to writers being more creative.

 

[Fenris-77]

Err… Safety is what makes some scary and transgressive things enjoyable. Kids (and adults) like horror movies and games, haunted houses, rollercoasters, etc. because they simulate scary stuff in a safe way. But if the slasher in the movie or the monster in the haunted house could actually hurt you? It wouldn’t be fun any more.

Was there something I said that made you think I wasn't talking about exactly that?

 

[Janx]

That story is really cool and makes for a great PC backstory, but it absolutely depends on the ecistence of such controversial topics as slavery and colonialism in order to exist. Without acknowledging and accepting those aspects of history and humanity, there is no Yasuke. In the context of RPGs, worlds that are scrubbed of those things can't have an "African Samurai" character.

This is a fundamentally flawed concept.

A character is interesting because they are interesting. Yasuke is a person, just as Masamune is. Without slavery, Yasuke is still a person. Still African. Still a samurai. He just got there for a different reason in that timeline.

What you're doing here is defaulting. Yasuke is only interesting because he's Black AND a former slave. Otherwise, he could have been white. Because white folks have been interesting without being slaves for all the other stories.

Yasuke catches attention in our modern context because we are recognizing the white-washing of our history and finally giving credit that Yasuke got to save Japan before Keanu Reeves did. Without slavery, he'd still be worthy of interest and respect for being who he was. A foreigner becoming respected Samurai is an accomplishment. Not just for being Black. Just like every other white dude doing something interesting.

A setting can have evil. But it doesn't have to repeat our history. It doesn't have to force players of a given demographic into the same roles, tropes, and denigrations of our history.

Don't confuse something the cause and effect of our history for being required content in a fictional setting.

 

[Umbran]

Why did you suddenly fixate on one particular group?

Mod Note:
Suddenly?

If you are going to be dismissive about the issues slavery has left in the US, you are not going to be part of this conversation.

 

[MGibster]

The point being not too many people were institutionally murdered over the course of several centuries. The same is not true of slavery.

::Native Americans have entered the chat::