What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[Micah Sweet]

Paizo is also in a bit of a bind though (ironically) since one of the core halfling ancestry feats is "Unfettered" and it literally mentions indenture and slavery as possible elements of your background. It is a reasonably good feat too for a melee character I think. I do not know how you errata that sort of thing without calling more attention to it.

Seems they  want to call attention to what they're removing. I imagine it helps the optics.

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

It seems to me that on this point, Paizo has made a smart choice.

Paizo is not making this material central and integral to their game and setting. In a separate supplement, a GM can easily ask if these topics and themes are appropriate for the group, and then not use it if it presents a problem. It also gives them the page count to address it in more considerate detail than is practical if presented in a book on a larger-scale setting.

I don't disagree, on a personal level, though I know there are people who take a more hard line stance of 'must not appear in a game product of any form'

 

[Umbran]

I don't disagree, on a personal level, though I know there are people who take a more hard line stance of 'must not appear in a game product of any form'

Perfect acceptance is not a reasonable expectation.

 

[Kaodi]

Looking at a couple of the photos in the "favourite D&D image" thread suddenly I wonder why the "chainmail bikini" never rebranded and transformed into the "chainmail sports/adventuring bra" . Chainmail bikinis are not quite on the level of "controversial" we have been dealing with in this thread but I thought it more appropriate to comment on it here rather than potentially derail an art appreciation thread.

 

[Faolyn]

Looking at a couple of the photos in the "favourite D&D image" thread suddenly I wonder why the "chainmail bikini" never rebranded and transformed into the "chainmail sports/adventuring bra" . Chainmail bikinis are not quite on the level of "controversial" we have been dealing with in this thread but I thought it more appropriate to comment on it here rather than potentially derail an art appreciation thread.

Because a chainmail sports bra would still be completely ridiculous as actual armor?

 

[Kaodi]

Not completely. Just mostly. I mean a leather jerkin is pretty ridiculous as armour when plate mail exists too. And it is not even meant as a substitute for a chain shirt, it is a substitute for an outfit that is just leather.

 

[Faolyn]

Not completely. Just mostly. I mean a leather jerkin is pretty ridiculous as armour when plate mail exists too. And it is not even meant as a substitute for a chain shirt, it is a substitute for an outfit that is just leather.

A leather jerkin normally covers a bit more than a chainmail bikini.

A chainmail loincloth is equally stupid.

 

[Kaodi]

I was rushed for time before. The "leather midriff bearing top" is still a thing in artwork I am pretty sure. I also did not have time to clarify earlier that a modern incarnation would need some kind of layer undearneath to prevent chaffing. And the loincloth part always looked kinda ugly anyway and I do not care about it having been discarded. But I imagine there should be room for something that evokes the idea of the old artwork without actually reproducing what was egregious about it. And it might go right over the heads of younger gamers, the way many movies for younger audiences still have references that only adults can really appreciate.

 

[Faolyn]

I was rushed for time before. The "leather midriff bearing top" is still a thing in artwork I am pretty sure. I also did not have time to clarify earlier that a modern incarnation would need some kind of layer undearneath to prevent chaffing. And the loincloth part always looked kinda ugly anyway and I do not care about it having been discarded. But I imagine there should be room for something that evokes the idea of the old artwork without actually reproducing what was egregious about it. And it might go right over the heads of younger gamers, the way many movies for younger audiences still have references that only adults can really appreciate.

I'm not sure it's possible to do the "revealing midriff" in a fantasy game without it being egregious, because the revealing midriff is what was egregious--it's the idea that a female warrior needs to have armor that makes them look sexy, not armor that protect them.

You'll notice that nearly every single female superhero in modern movies and TV (I say nearly, because I haven't seen them all) is sensibly dressed while on the job, even though their comic book outfits may have been very revealing.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I'm not sure it's possible to do the "revealing midriff" in a fantasy game without it being egregious, because the revealing midriff is what was egregious--it's the idea that a female warrior needs to have armor that makes them look sexy, not armor that protect them.

You'll notice that nearly every single female superhero in modern movies and TV (I say nearly, because I haven't seen them all) is sensibly dressed while on the job, even though their comic book outfits may have been very revealing.

Maybe I just grew up on different stuff, but I think there is definitely a place for fantasy that displays the beauty and athleticism of the human body (both male and female). When I think of a lot of sword and sorcery, men and women both have clothes that are meant to be revealing, even titillating. That isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea on an RPG cover (I don't really do that sort of thing myself on my own books) but I think it has a place in the genre and hobby (and it isn't a horrible thing for an artist or writer to want to do). Obviously it isn't reflecting any kind of practical armor, but not everything in fantasy needs to be practical, historical or even authentic.