What Were They Thinking? Worst Comic Ideas.

[Aaron L]

Hey, I'm just saying what has been in the comics over the past few issues!

 

[Taren Seeker]

I can see where you are coming from, but Angel is only useless if you judge him by his powers alone. What about his financial resources, his contacts (business/political/superhero), his training as a team member (after all, the X-Men should fight as a team not as a bunch of individuals), etc?* For me, what makes a character interesting is not just what powers they have, but their personality/history/relationship with others/etc.

Which is why I said I liked him as a character, but I thought his powers became superfluous. I appreciate what he brought to the book in terms of personality and resources, but it's a superhero book. In a superhero book, you need to beat up the bad guys. He was well trained, but all the X-Men had that. He really wasn't even the best flyer once Storm came along. Warren Worthington was great for the book, Angel was not. It's probably why they dropped him from the book except as a supporting character who would show up when Claremont needed to throw money at a problem

I'm more interested in a more rounded character than someone wearing a flashy costume with cool powers. Course I also recognize the fact that one person's turd may be another's treasure... especially true when it comes to comics.

* Course all of these factors depend on which continuity you are talking about.

Oh I'm talking about the original Angel days, before he lost his wings. I honestly don't think I'm alone in my opinion of his powers and contribution in a fight; after all, it was Claremont who originally dropped him from the X-Men, took away his wings and created Archangel. Unfortunately he changed his personality WAY too much along with the power change, and you're right, he became too much a second rate Logan.

But Claremont being Claremont, I guess he figured he could take 5 or 10 years to have Warren get back to his playboy self

All that being said, Angel==a REAL Angel????

 

[Turgenev]

Which is why I said I liked him as a character, but I thought his powers became superfluous. I appreciate what he brought to the book in terms of personality and resources, but it's a superhero book. In a superhero book, you need to beat up the bad guys. He was well trained, but all the X-Men had that. He really wasn't even the best flyer once Storm came along. Warren Worthington was great for the book, Angel was not. It's probably why they dropped him from the book except as a supporting character who would show up when Claremont needed to throw money at a problem

I see where you are coming from and you could well be right. I can't say for sure what Claremont was thinking when he was writing X-Men at the time. One thing though, since the relaunch of the X-Men dealt with the "All-New, All-Different" team, I have a feeling that Angel's departure may have been more an editorial decision (after all, at this point Angel was scheduled to appear in the Champions series with Iceman) than a writer dropping the character because he was "superfluous". In other words, the "new" team got the spotlight while the other characters went off to explore different alternatives (the Beast was in the Avengers, Angel and Iceman were in the Champions and Jean Grey would return to the X-Men in issue 97). And for the record, Claremont didn't have a free reign over the X-Men in the early days of the relaunch. He had co-plotting/scripting duties for the most part (X-Men 94 was co-plotted by Len Wein, who was also the editor at the time and X-Men). IIRC, he didn't gain full-plotting chores until X-men 97 or so (I could be wrong here... I'm working from memory).

Warren/Angel did rejoin the team (some time after his Champions stint) from issues 139 to 148 (that's 10 issues, close to a whole year's worth). That's not a bad run for a "supporting" character. Considering Claremont's love for character interaction and character driven stories, couldn't it also be possible that he eventually wrote out Angel because that's the way the story unfolded? Angel refused to remain on the same team that had Wolverine as a member. Angel saw him as being too dangerous and a psychopath. Angel returns again around 169/170 where he was kidnapped by the Morlocks (I will conceed that he was more a plot device in this appearance than his earlier stint with the team ).

Oh I'm talking about the original Angel days, before he lost his wings. I honestly don't think I'm alone in my opinion of his powers and contribution in a fight; after all, it was Claremont who originally dropped him from the X-Men, took away his wings and created Archangel. Unfortunately he changed his personality WAY too much along with the power change, and you're right, he became too much a second rate Logan.

For the record, it was Louise Simonson who wrote the X-Factor issues where Angel lost his wings (X-Factor 14 & 15), not Claremont. I don't have my X-Factor issues handy where Angel becomes Archangel but I believe that was Louise Simonson's doing also. I don't know and can't say how much influence Claremont had with the decision. Who knows? Maybe it was Bob Harris' decision (the editor at the time) since editors love to dictate how stories should turn out.

I guess I'm saying that without asking those directly involved with the actual comic, all we can do is speculate on the "real" reason (course someone could always email Louise Simonson and ask her). You have your theory and you could very well be right. I'm just keeping my mind open since I see this whole issue as being slightly more complex than just a power issue. I guess I'll agree to disagree and leave it at that.

But Claremont being Claremont, I guess he figured he could take 5 or 10 years to have Warren get back to his playboy self

Heh, the way he writes these days it would probably take 10 to 20 years to get back to the character that we all know and love.

All that being said, Angel==a REAL Angel????

A real Angel?!?! When did this happen? I stopped collecting Uncanny X-Men around issue 300 so I've been out of the loop for a while. I tried Morrison's take on the X-Men for a bit but found myself not interested in the current versions of the characters.

Cheers,
Tim

 

[Mog Elffoe]

Hey, clearly some of you are reading the current X-Men comics--I have a question for you. What's the deal with Juggernaut now? I understand that he's a member of the X-Men and all which I don't have too much of a problem with, but I also read that he's been depowered. What's up with that? I always liked the version of Juggernaut that could take a hit from Thor's 'Unfettered Might' strike with Mjolnir and not even budge (as long as he has his force field up anyway.) Why/How was he depowered, and what sort of power level is he at now? Thing-level or lower?

 

[grigori776]

How is Warren rich again? Back in X-Factor he was declared legally dead and his estate was divided among the original X-men and Cameron Hodge.

 

[Aaron L]

Juggernaut, the avatar of Cyttorak! Here's what I've been able to dig up :

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/cyttor.htm


And about Angel being a real angel: apparently, our legends of angels and demons are based on wars between ancient groups of winged and barbed tailed MUTANTS*, and the leader of the demon mutants was named Azazel, and was imprisoned in another dimension (Hell, apparently)



* The writer apparently doesn't quite get that, if there is such a substantial group of "mutants" they aren't mutants, they are a seperate race. The writing has gotten quite pathetic, really. I want Mephisto to find out about this guy pretending to be him.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

My pick for worst idea: Image never finishing up Alan Moore's splendid "1963" miniseries with the promised 80 page annual. Instead, we get a Shadowhawk issue in which the 1963 characters show up. Instead of the very cool Kirby-esque art by Veitch and Gibbons, we get rather crude art that looks like someone trying to combine the styles of Ditko and Kirby, but failing to evoke the energy of either, and instead of Alan Moore, we get an OK-but-not-great Jim Valentino script. I guess the 1963 characters appeared in Big Bang Comics 35, also by Valentino, but I never saw it.

 

[stevelabny]

just found out that the previously mentioned return of hal jordan could quite possibly happen the green lantern series that byrne is working on.

when will they learn?

i also found out that although the first issue of hte new shonen jump series sold over 500,00 copies, less than 4% of that was sold through the direct market.

as an industry, five more years, tops.

 

[Mog Elffoe]

Juggernaut, the avatar of Cyttorak! Here's what I've been able to dig up :

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/cyttor.htm

Thanks, but it doesn't seem to be up to date.
Anybody know what's currently going on with Juggernaut?

 

[Mog Elffoe]

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