what works in fiction but not rpgs or vice versa?

[Dannyalcatraz]

The thing I've seen in fiction that hasn't worked out in RPGs is an item that is tied to heredity or prophesy regarding the PCs.

Any magic item (or whatever) that depends on a PC having a certain lineage or fufilling a prophesy is almost doomed to fail. Think Excalibur. Think Elfstones or Sword of Shannara.

In my experience, even if you successfully get the item into the "destined" hands, it looks like favoritism to the other players. Campaign collapse almost inevitably follows.

Prophesies have similar results- the other players typically resent being "supporting cast" to the one you've chosen as the "Annointed One." Or annointed as the "Chosen One."

I did, however, manage to pull off a prophecy in a campaign once...but it turned out the PC everyone thought was THE ONE...wasn't. THAT worked out OK.

 

[Glyfair]

1, A classic bit is where one person has authority and others do not. Look at several instances on Firefly, or the Serenity movie, where Mal basical says 'Shut up and do what I tell you or I'll blow your damn face off'.

Watching that, one thought was 'you know, if someone pulled attitude like that in a game, the other characters would (1) ignore him or (2) tell him where he could put the gun and leave.'

This certainly can work, but takes the players agreeing beforehand. Personally, I'd like to see a group get together and come up with some character dynamics before they start play. Not a huge amount, but put together some tidbits like "John & Judy fight like cats and dogs, but will not tolerate anyone else abusing the other."

Also, with a few exceptions Mal would usually say "Shut up or get off my ship." He wasn't much one on threatening violence. In an RPG, that would tend to work better, too. PCs tend not to back down to death threats. However, they'll often back down to more subtle threats, if it's to an element developed in the world. For example, a villain who says he'll make sure he ruins the PCs good names, when they've spent a lot of time gathering a reputation.

2. Any scene where characters surrender. I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I've seen a party of adventurers in any game surrender to even the most overwhelming force.

A lot of this is trained, IMO. I've read or seen enough comments where DMs tend to pigeonhole villians into a certain set habits, and don't deviate from it at all for a good story. For example, I know of one example where a group surrendered to an obviously overwhelming orc force. The DM felt that orcs were rapists, and they proceded to rape some of the PCs.

Guess what the players did next time they were in a situation where they were asked to surrender?

Plus, it's not just his extreme example. You'll see a lot of DMs who decide the villians will kill the PCs if they surrender, which just discourages the action.

The only real way to overcome this is for the DM to discuss things like this in advance. Tell your players that you expect that they'll surrender when overwhelmed, and aren't going to severely punish them for the action (although they certainly should expect negative consequences).

 

[Victim]

Main characters. Most novels or movies, even where they groups of characters, have one or two main characters while the rest are supporting cast. OTOH, most RPG groups have the characters roughly equal in screen importance.

 

[Psion]

The Dramatic Exit

Example:

After an unsuccessful seige on the PC's stronghold, the Villain spurrs his horse and rides away from the battlefied vowing to return and crush the upstart heroes.

One of the PCs shakes brandishes his bloody sword says, "And we'll be ready for you!"

Another PC looks at me and asks how far away the Villain is. About 100 yards, I say.

"I cast fireball"

Trooth.

Monks make this situation especially difficult to acheive, with their fast movement.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The thing I've seen in fiction that hasn't worked out in RPGs is an item that is tied to heredity or prophesy regarding the PCs.

Any magic item (or whatever) that depends on a PC having a certain lineage or fufilling a prophesy is almost doomed to fail. Think Excalibur. Think Elfstones or Sword of Shannara.

In my experience, even if you successfully get the item into the "destined" hands, it looks like favoritism to the other players. Campaign collapse almost inevitably follows.

You might be able to pull it off if the magic item in question is also class-related and has no mechanical benefits and only one function - eg open that magical gate. (Eg only druids of this line can use the item.) But I haven't tried it myself.

 

[Odhanan]

The standard 'explore the dungeon, kill everything and take their loot' would make a fairly uninteresting fantasy novel

I don't think so. It all depends how it's written and what kind of "plot" is featured by the dungeon design.

 

[Kid Socrates]

2. Any scene where characters surrender. I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I've seen a party of adventurers in any game surrender to even the most overwhelming force.

In a game I played in, we once surrendered four times in three sessions to three different groups! The DM had absolutely no idea what to do with us.

Cor: "Vel! What's going on out there?"
Vel: "I'm talking to their leader!"
Cor: "What's he saying?"
Vel: "Surrender or die, that's pretty much how it's going to be!"
Cor: "...Okay! We surrender!"
DM: "You do what?"

Later we surrendered to a group that attacked them, then to the original guys again, then we stole their horses, surrendered to some guards, ran away again, stole a carraige, and Vel died when we wrecked into a shop.

Of course, we've never surrendered in any other game -- that was just those characters' style. We've got a successful romance going in one, too, but only second time I've seen it, and the first nearly broke the game up when the wizard and barbarian wanted to make goo-goo eyes at each other in an inn and the two fighters had to go fight the bugbears by themselves. That was a rough session.

 

[nakia]

It seems that some games can create "stories" that are more like what we see in novels/on the screen better than other ones. D&D seems to have many eccentricities that makes it poor for creating those types of stories.

I've recently (re)discovered Risus, which is set up to be able to mimic this sort of storytelling. In Risus, the winner of the combat always decides what happens to the loser, which provides for the villian's escape (if he wins), or the madman's monologue, or any other scenario. Because "combat" is really whenever two people are opposed at something, the combat mechanic can be used to represent chases, staredowns, games of chess, wizard duels, swordfights, or even trying to stop a fried from bleeding to death.

Sometimes the tactical aspects of D&D get in the way of the storytelling aspects. That's not a bad thing, per se, because sometimes you want to play a game, not (re)create a story.

 

[DonTadow]

Villain monologues. I have yet to figure out how to keep my villains out of combat so they can finish their awesome monologues! Stupid PCs keep firing thunderbolts at them...

Also, breaks to focus on the villains and their master plan, so the reader KNOWS that Hiro Protagonist is carrying the Holy Relic of Holiness that Evil McBadguy needs to complete the Evil Machine, but Hiro thinks it's just a bauble and plans to sell it. If Hiro's player knew that, even out of character, that bauble would suddenly become no end of fascinating, and would never be sold to a cunning NPC street vendor.

The way i do villian monologues is if the villian begans to talk, the pcs are free to act whenever they want, but they know that the villian may say something important so they usually will let him speak. This was a lesson learned by the pcs early in the campaign after interuprting several bad guys and kill them before they could interegate them. (also its good to save villian monolgoues for after the battle). The party wondered around helplessly looking for notes and other witnesses after these incidents. Now, the party has adopated one of the pcs as the bonafied Jack Bauer. If someone's not talking they will when she finished with them (bone breaking, acid baths, poisoning and curing... yep its a good party).

 

[JoeGKushner]

The Dramatic Exit

/true story
//Villains's mount was fried, and the badly singed Villain had to resort to running away on foot.
///in full-plate. He got about 60 feet before being slaughtered.

An anti-paladin was serving the Ebon Maw and was just getting the smack down on him and so decided to retreat. Stole one of the player's special horses and man, the range of fireball... got hit twice by fireball spell and a couple arrows before going down in dust.