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D&D 5E What would a 'real' D&D society look like?

I also feel that large armies would not be that common. It would, to me at least, make sense for cities to hire and pay for Adventuring parties to act as Special Forces type units. Th idea of arming thousands of peasants gathered in a local levy and marching off to war sounds insane to me. One moderate level character of just about any class is going to inflict truly horrific losses on that army before being taken down, assuming the army even wins.
Keep in mind that on modern Earth, where special forces are a real thing and are not only extremely well trained but have access to weapons a D&D party couldn't even dream of, wars are still fought with large armies. In all the thousands of years of military history, there has not yet been an advance in technology or tactics that has rendered infantry obsolete. "One moderate level character" might be able to inflict heavy losses on an army, perhaps, but tell me: how is this character expected to occupy an entire country and actually win the war? They can't, no more than one SEAL, or one bomber, or one tank, or one cannon, or one cataphract, or one chariot could. In the end, it always comes down to having a large group of armed men (or possibly women) on foot where the enemy doesn't want them to be.
 
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FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I imagine it would be a lot like the 1800-1900's but in stone castles and wood forts.

The elite would have access to fast transportation and fast messages. Traditional buildings and weapons and such technology would be old timey as study of magic may have harmed those fields. Magic would be applied to agriculture and medicine much more than in D&D. For local people that would be the primary focus of magic. Magic would be used for spying etc. There would be "industrialized cities" and the wild west too.

That's my opinion anyways. Politics would change depending on how a few major events played out but would probably be similar to those times as well. Possibly similar to politics in the early 21st century.
 

Gwarok

Explorer
Well, this is a good topic, and I think you're right, if you assume that the general population, or even 12% of it, is like the PC's, with access to their abilities. I've always DM'd from the perspective that PC's are Heroes with a capital "H", and represent the best of the best. People with their abilities and growth potential can't be too common, or the world would in fact be so vastly different from anything in human history that it's practically science fiction instead of fantasy, with Magic of all stripes replacing technology, which isn't really a world I find amusing.

I find a lot of DM's seem to think that the PC's shouldn't feel too special, that every fight should be a close matchup, and that encounters where the PC's just steamroll the opposition are a waste of time. IMO that is what being a PC is all about. It's not about being the guys that are scared of the organized crime guild, but the ones that walk in and kick their butt. Sorta like every Denzel Washington movie in the last 10 years or so. He is a high level guy that gets in fights with a bunch of low level guys, works his way up the totem pole as the movie progresses, and really only has one or two bad guys at the end that provide him with any real challenge. First off, this makes a fun movie to watch because we love seeing the hero kick a lot of butt, and second, I've found that letting the PC's show off their superiority to bad guys in many(not all) fights is actually as fun to play as it is to watch when Denzel mows through an entire room full of armed bad guys bare handed while hardly breaking a sweat.

But back to your thing. High level guys are pretty rare, and often found in places you wouldn't expect. The King doesn't need to be 20th level, real kings were often physically not very impressive, they ruled based on tradition and cultural expectations. The high level people worked for their low level kings. I'd say that raise dead is pretty hard to get, otherwise the wealthy would never die suddenly. Same with most cleric spells that provide food and water and cure diseases. Hell, I'd make Comprehend Languages a 7th level spell, that's actually pretty powerful out of combat if you think about it.
 

Eric V

Hero
In some established settings, high-level people are not that rare. In Huzuz, for example, there are multiple level 20 people.

One of the things to consider, though, is what edition that was. In 2e, there were serious repercussions for people casting Resurrection (aging a number of years, I believe) and this presented a logical reason why it wasn't used often. Once restrictions like that are removed, it changes the nature of your game a great deal; having a 13th level cleric in the caliph's retinue means it's extraordinarily difficult to assassinate him and have it stick.
 

Dan Chernozub

First Post
In some established settings, high-level people are not that rare. In Huzuz, for example, there are multiple level 20 people.

One of the things to consider, though, is what edition that was. In 2e, there were serious repercussions for people casting Resurrection (aging a number of years, I believe) and this presented a logical reason why it wasn't used often. Once restrictions like that are removed, it changes the nature of your game a great deal; having a 13th level cleric in the caliph's retinue means it's extraordinarily difficult to assassinate him and have it stick.

True, even killing someone who runs a level 13 in his retinue is not an easy affair in most cases and most of the people who got that high take a lot of steps ensuring that they keep what they have worked so hard to get.

Sounds totally reasonable to me - any power comes at a cost, at a cost of a risk in nothing else. Playing against the risks is how you get to the top.
 

Hussar

Legend
I think that we're missing a big element here, moreso than the PHB.

The Monster Manual.

Imagine a world where those monsters actually exist. Every kingdom with even a modicum of wealth would have flying cavalry. They're just worth their weight in gold. Even if you're not carpet bombing, you can still use them for intelligence gathering and messaging. Massive change to how the world works.

Or, take the lowly Fire Beetle. Here's a beetle, about two or three FEET long that provides a perfectly safe source of light. It's a beetle. How hard is it to farm beetles? A heck of a lot easier than cows or pigs. They eat garbage. Why wouldn't ever city cultivate them? Easy source of food and light that cleans your streets. It's not like they are particularly aggressive or dangerous. No moreso than a pig or a cow anyway.

Or elves. Every high elf has a free cantrip. Imagine high elf heavy cavalry with Fire Bolt. Unbelievably devastating. Enemies form a shield wall? Fantastic, stand off 90 feet and turn them into kebabs. They move forward to get you? Ok, we're heavy cavalry and you aren't set up in a shield wall anymore. You're combining high speed archers with unlimited ammo with heavy cavalry. Yikes.

On and on and on. The Monster Manual creatures, IMO, would have a much greater impact on a fantasy society than any of the classes.
 

I think that we're missing a big element here, moreso than the PHB.

The Monster Manual.

Imagine a world where those monsters actually exist. Every kingdom with even a modicum of wealth would have flying cavalry. They're just worth their weight in gold. Even if you're not carpet bombing, you can still use them for intelligence gathering and messaging. Massive change to how the world works.

In my campaign setting, portals are a natural phenomenon. Some portals are stable, and stay in place. Others move around, or appear only for a short period of time. The threat of a bunch of demons popping out of a portal, means that kingdoms tend to have people guard these gateways. They also have special cages constructed around the portals, guarded day and night by an army.

It also affects the environment. A portal could appear right inside a river, and cause the river to flow elsewhere. All of a sudden you have a river pouring out of some dimensional gateway. Portals that are on the move, are treated as one would respond to a tornado today. Settlements that are in its path, are warned ahead of time, and evacuated.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I think that we're missing a big element here, moreso than the PHB.

The Monster Manual.

Imagine a world where those monsters actually exist. Every kingdom with even a modicum of wealth would have flying cavalry. They're just worth their weight in gold. Even if you're not carpet bombing, you can still use them for intelligence gathering and messaging. Massive change to how the world works.

Or, take the lowly Fire Beetle. Here's a beetle, about two or three FEET long that provides a perfectly safe source of light. It's a beetle. How hard is it to farm beetles? A heck of a lot easier than cows or pigs. They eat garbage. Why wouldn't ever city cultivate them? Easy source of food and light that cleans your streets. It's not like they are particularly aggressive or dangerous. No moreso than a pig or a cow anyway.

Or elves. Every high elf has a free cantrip. Imagine high elf heavy cavalry with Fire Bolt. Unbelievably devastating. Enemies form a shield wall? Fantastic, stand off 90 feet and turn them into kebabs. They move forward to get you? Ok, we're heavy cavalry and you aren't set up in a shield wall anymore. You're combining high speed archers with unlimited ammo with heavy cavalry. Yikes.

On and on and on. The Monster Manual creatures, IMO, would have a much greater impact on a fantasy society than any of the classes.

Monsters do exist! We just call them terrorists and criminals today and they blend in much better with normal people than any monster ever could.
 

Mephista

Adventurer
So, one of the things that I think being curiously unmentioned so far? Races. Now, in the real world, racism and stereotypes are a function of observer dissonance and culture more than anything genetic; in short, not a lot of innate differences. However! That is very much untrue in D&D. At the absolute very minimum, elves and dwarves have lifespans that make most races look like mayflies.

Here's a funny thing about technological development. Most of our modern advancement is the direct result of computers making it extremely easy to do research; prior to computers, a lot of money and time was devoted to either trying to painstakingly dig up previous research, or reproducing results when you didn't find anything. In terms of long lives? That wasted time and energy becomes far less, because you have people still around who can tell you about the results. Or at least remember something similar to point you towards. This gives elves and dwarves a huge, huge advantage when it comes to cultural and magical advancement. That's not something you see in D&D. In fact, such a thing is likely the reason for the level cap very early editions implimented!

D&D, in general, is a very human-centric game. Humans are everywhere, they're like flies, they form the majority fo cities, etc. But, when you get down to it, there's a lot going on that makes human advancement stand out. They don't really have a natural inclination towards development like gnomes, they don't have long lives and affinity for magic like elves, they don't have dwarven crafting skills. Humans seem to thrive in D&D because they're like rabbits - they breed everywhere, and they''d overpopulate in a heartbeat if there weren't so many natural predators (ie monsters) killing them off.

While we're on the matter of breeding... what's up with half-orcs and half-elves? The implicit assumption is humanity as the other half. Can we have half-human/half-halflings or half-dwarves? Are humans the only ones who can breed with other races? Here's an amusing conclusion that I jokingly came up with once - humans are actually the children of orcs and elves. That's why you get half-elves and half-orcs - they're already all "one race," at least in terms of having kids. Even if that's just a joke, you can bet your arse that more than a few people will come to that assumption and claim it as fact to look down on other races. Just a curious aside.

Anyways, back on subject. Different races are going to have vastly different magi-technological advances. When people talk about dwarven craftsmen being the best, we're going to be talking about a culture that has literally centuries of experience in their craftsmen. Individually. I don't think the impact can really be underestimated. And that's before we start bringing in aasimar, tieflings, dragonborn, aarkosha, genasi and the rest of Volo's / MM's races.

Funny thing about human psychology - we tend to gravitate towards those that share the same qualities with us. Just how difficult is it going to be for all these races to get along? Is that really the root of the good versus evil races - just the races that can get along together versus the ones that can't?


Classes
Now, D&D classes are basically your profession. One thing that's a curious lack is that there's no "production" classes. Farmer, blacksmith, innkeeper, lumberjack, fisher, etc. Probably because they're not adventurer occupations. However, here's a curious question to consider - are these truly different classes, or are they following the same paradigm as adventurer classes? What does that mean? Is a farmer really its own class, or is it a subclass of, say, Druid? Remember, druids get spells that encourage crop production and to take care of animals. Certainly, learning druid magic would be the equivaelnt of advanced farming techniques.

How aware are people about classes? And levels? A single high level Fighter is worth more than an entire army... and I bet you the powers that be know it. Is this a world where might makes right? When you get right down to it, if you want to maintain power, you're going to need military might to do so. Nobles are going to be given advanced training over others so that they'll have a higher level, and thus be more likely to survive. Anyone proven to have advanced skill is likely going to be targetted by local governments - either for recruitment, or elimination as a threat. Advanced magical items will also likely be shared and used within noble families. The king's crown, thrown and rod are quite possibly artifacts in its own right that give him literal dominion. Do nobles train as bardic colleges for their social acumen, magic and lore? Or rogue? Imagine that as sub-classes - socialite and politician. The real social rogue! And lets not forget what I mentioned before, about long lived races - elves and dwarves, as long as we don't implement caps of some kind, are going to average higher levels than anyone else.

Honestly, so much of the world is going to depend on how classes work and how aware people are of them and levels. Spellcasters, at least, are aware of spell levels. What if there really are only fourteen classes (core plus psychic/mystic and artificer) and everything else is modified by your subclass and level? No matter how its implemented, however? What's going to remain is that high level individuals are going to be more important than almost anything else in the world as resources to manage. The'yre worth their wei... no, they're worth more than an army's weight in gold. Including equipment.

And then, what about crime? Paladins make it trivially easy to detect most contraband or other forms of smuggling. Imagine a city where all the guards swore an Oath of the Crown. Even at low levels (reachable by training), we have people with the ability to check all travelers using Detect Traps, Detect Lies or the like. Casual crime and gangs are very likely going to be down. On the other hand? Organized crime guilds are likely going to be not only thriving, but critical - you're going to need the support of Trickster clerics, arcane tricksters, warlocks and more to survive against the most basic of magical crime fighting.

Someone mentioned wizards versus clerics as a division of society. While I can't quite get that, I will bring up cleric versus druid. Both are "faith" classes, but with vastly different objects of worship - actual gods versus nature spirits. This could very well create a culture clash. In the real world, any time who religions met, most often, one was destroyed or absorbed into it. Chances are, based on human nature, clerics and druids are very likely to be at odds. Probably the same with the "friendly" rivalry of wizards, sorcerers and warlocks.

Alignment
Its a thing. Adventurer classes don't have the ability to detect it, but theer's enough of the occasional item that I'm sure it'll come up. Prepare for thought crimes!

gods
Objectively real. And they give stuff away.

Monsters
Probably the biggest consideration to a society. Now, D&D often resembles a pre-Industrial Revolution world for various reasons. City-state types with it being dangerous to travel between. Unlike the real world, however, the dangers of the road and forest are not to be underestimated. Monsters aren't animals or terratin. They're far more deadly. The world effectively lives in a constant seige state. You have to be prepared for monster attacks at any given time. This creates a situation where cities (due to magic) are very likely highly advanced, but unable to expand out as much as they would like. Occasionally, you get settlers, but how often will these new settlements get wiped out, even with the support of mercinary-like adventurers? I think RWBY, if anyone is familiar with it, is a great example of this kind of mindset. Without fortifications and natural defenses, its virtually impossible to set up new cities without a lot of help.

People talk about how adventurer classes are rare, but I have to question - if monsters are an ever present threat... why would it be rare? Military force is going to be a critical important thing fro any civilization, since they're constantly under threat.

Cosmology
Gods are real, and they talk to you. Angels can pop in a portal and come visit. Devils really are after your soul, but the path to get there far more complicated than just tempting you to "sin." Really, though, the most important detail?

We have a Star Trek situation. Planeswalkers who jaunt over to one world that's advanced, then go to one that's not. These worlds are all part of the same Great Wheel, and anyone advanced enough can come and go as they please. How's that for something mind blowing? How about when we have advanced societies (like an elven one with lots of high level warlocks and sorcerers) that can planeswalk at almost whim, visit distant gods, while the human society right outside the forest are still struggling to fend off goblins? Space age chilling next to bronze age.
 

Mephista

Adventurer
Keep in mind that on modern Earth, where special forces are a real thing and are not only extremely well trained but have access to weapons a D&D party couldn't even dream of, wars are still fought with large armies. In all the thousands of years of military history, there has not yet been an advance in technology or tactics that has rendered infantry obsolete. "One moderate level character" might be able to inflict heavy losses on an army, perhaps, but tell me: how is this character expected to occupy an entire country and actually win the war? They can't, no more than one SEAL, or one bomber, or one tank, or one cannon, or one cataphract, or one chariot could. In the end, it always comes down to having a large group of armed men (or possibly women) on foot where the enemy doesn't want them to be.
You're forgetting the possibility of mind controlling the populous - or at least key individuals - when done. A small group with Geas or Mass Suggestion can lock down a country just as easily as a large army.
 

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