What would be better for this build?

[Zelc]

Have you thought about using Virtuoso or Seeker of the Song instead of progressing Bard levels? You get the fun fun Jarring Song/Distracting Song, which makes it really annoying to be a spellcaster when you're meleeing them.

 

[Skead]

Have you thought about using Virtuoso or Seeker of the Song instead of progressing Bard levels? You get the fun fun Jarring Song/Distracting Song, which makes it really annoying to be a spellcaster when you're meleeing them.

That'd lower my BaB wouldn't it?

 

[Zelc]

That'd lower my BaB wouldn't it?

Well, it depends. You lose 3 BAB with Virtuoso 5 or 6 for Jarring Song and spellcasting progression, and 2 BAB with Seeker of the Song 6 for Hymn of Spelldeath. Factoring in the 1 BAB loss from Bard, you'll end with 16 or 17 BAB if the rest of your levels are Paladin levels.

Jarring Song/Hymn of Spelldeath might be worth it, especially if you can pick up Thicket of Blades and Stand Still somehow. *Shrug*

 

[Darklone]

Another vote for Pal4/BardX and no fighter levels. TWF builds are ok with feats like Two Weapon Pounce or Dual Strike that allow to use several weapons with standard actions, but you don't have many feats to spend.

If you ask me, get a bow and a polearm.

The Devoted Performer archer with a Bow of songs (MIC: Swift action to use one bardic music attempt for a bonus to hit and damage for a round) and Divine Might is one of the few builds that beats a scout/ranger archer with greater Manyshot.

Haste+Rapid Shot and 2*Cha mod to damage... It's one of the few non CoDzilla builds that makes Extra Turning an interesting feat for me

 

[RigaMortus2]

Check the Holy Liberator in Complete Divine. It is basically made for the Chaotic Paladin. I had a player that made a memorable character. Started as Bard, went to Holy Liberator (don't even need Paladin levels for it).

You can also try the Chaotic version of the Paladin from UA. Much fun.

 

[Quartz]

Check the Holy Liberator in Complete Divine. It is basically made for the Chaotic Paladin. I had a player that made a memorable character. Started as Bard, went to Holy Liberator (don't even need Paladin levels for it).

And you can synergise the two with Mystic Theurge!

 

[moritheil]

Turn Undead + Power Attack -> Divine Might -> Cha to damage for a round, 3 + Cha times per day. Awesome for archers.

Cheers, -- N

In answer to the other post, the boost to saves from paladin levels is also quite handy.

And you can synergise the two with Mystic Theurge!

I'm not sure that's such a great idea. Don't several abilities depend on paladin levels (or paladin-like levels)? The MT is designed to put two full casting classes together; putting two half-casting classes together might result in something well below the power curve.

 

[Zelc]

Here's another idea. If you have access to Races of Destiny, why not do something like Bard 1/Paladin 4/Chameleon 10/X 5? If the X is a full BAB class or Prestige Class (I recommend at least 1 level of Horizon Walker for immunity to fatigue), you end up with 16 BAB at level 20. You only get 5 uses of Bardic Music, but you'll only be using it to power Snowflake Wardances so it's probably enough. You get Turn Undead from the Paladin levels, which can power Divine Might. If your DM lets you do this, Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) is a better idea, since the Chameleon gets access to a TON of really tasty persistable spells. Divine Metamagic (Quicken) is less cheesy but still very good. Unfortunately, there is a bit of MAD with the Chameleon since you want around 16 Int and Wis, but you get +6 Cha from the class to make up for it. With a Combat + Arcane switched to Divine focus, you get tons of self-buffs (basically a ton of hour/level or day-long arcane spells and whatever powerful divine spells you want to cast like Swift Haste) along with +4 attack and +4 damage.

By the way, Snowflake Wardance only works with slashing melee weapons EDIT: that you hold in one hand. And you can't use a shield, so you might as well go for TWF if you have the feats and Dex for it. Otherwise... 1 level of Monk for flurry with Kama? Or just settle for one weapon.

 

[moritheil]

If your DM lets you do this, Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) is a better idea, since the Chameleon gets access to a TON of really tasty persistable spells.

Ah yes, now DMM rears its head.

What is your caster level if you take that build? Would you need to worry about dispels?

 

[Zelc]

What is your caster level if you take that build? Would you need to worry about dispels?

Your caster level is 2x your Chameleon level. So yes, you end up with CL 20 at 15 HD. (Bloodline levels, GO!)

Unfortunately, that doesn't let you qualify for feats. To do that, you can take Practiced Spellcaster on either your Paladin or your Bard, which gives you CL 5. That's enough to craft some items with your floating bonus feat.

And actually, DMM is great, but DMM:Q is good enough. You should have tons of turns per day. Divine Favors can be quickened with level 5 slots, and you shouldn't need to quicken Divine Powers that much. A lot of your power will come from the second level Ranger spell Hunter's Eye (+1d6 sneak attack per 3 caster levels, so +6d6 at level 14, and +7d6 at level 15 with the +1 CL Ioun Stone). It's a swift action to cast, and you can extend it for more fun.

OK, I guess DMM would make it really nice. But that's just gravy.

Sadly, this is a Cha focused build instead of a Wis focused build, so you can't abuse Kelpstrand .