What would this society look like?

[rogueboy]

I'm working on a new campaign world (despite having been working on it for longer than I'd like to admit, I'm still not entirely happy with it), and have run into some issues finishing up the fluff on a few of the races. My current thought (and feel free to comment on this as well as the racial society) is that each race has an independent city, and there are several larger cities that function as the classic metropolises of the world. At the moment, I'm looking at the human city: I have it situated on the edge of a desert, plains, or similar (large, open spaces). Taking inspiration from the Races and Classes 4e preview book, I'm thinking that my humans will be a semi-nomadic people, with an emphasis on mounted combat. Whether this ends up being a desert-based, camel-riding society or a plains-based horse-riding society or something else, I'm not sure.

Does anyone have any opinions on what this human society should/would look like? I would like to stay with this type of environment (desert- or plains-type) if possible, but would be open to suggestions.

Thanks.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm no anthropologist, so take what follows with a grain of salt.

I'd look at Native Americans plains tribes, Arabic desert settlements, the Mongols, Romani/Gypsies and to a certain extent, the Vikings.

In either environment:

1) There would probably be an emphasis on warriors being proficient in ranged combat (most likely spears, slings, bows, due to resource availability).

2) Steeds would be among the most valuable things a warrior could own- horse, camel or other- and mounted combat and/or dragoon style tactics would be the norm.

3) Trade would probably be something they specialize in to the point of being infamous traders. Either they control the trading posts & water (in their settlements) or they travel the trade routes, carrying goods (and maybe raiding other caravans) as they hunt and gather. Or both.

4) Rangers would probably be the predominant warrior archetype, followed closely by Barbarians (and/or Scouts in 3.XEd)- they'd need wilderness survival skills to be effective.

5) The more nomadic among them would own nothing more than they could carry on a pack animal or on their person. Wealth (beyond a mount and important weapons/tools) would be more concentrated in loose stones and jewelry than in coins.

6) They will be somewhat xenophobic. They may trade with you and dine with you, but they probably won't trust you.

7) Literacy is a luxury. That doesn't mean uneducated, though. Many nomadic cultures have incredible oral traditions...and remember that several advanced mathematical concepts originated in Arabic cultures. While they may not read, they certainly can memorize, and may be excellent rhetoricians...and hagglers.

 

[fba827]

oddly enough, alot of what i was going to say was alredy covered by danny...

but other random thoughts to add --

I say stick to plains (rather than desert), that way you won't have to get in to heat / dehydration issues, etc (unless you really want to).

Animals:
Horses will be a very valued commodity. For a variation, consider riding lizards for something more exotic.

Hunting:
No animal part goes to waste, skins, meat, dung, entrails, all used for something (food, fuel, cloth, etc)
They would also be respectful of the land they cross through knowing if they "scrotch and burn it" they won't be able to come back to it later when it thrives

Combat styles:
Open terrain is perfect for archery (few pesky trees to give targets cover)

Location:
* A fresh water source should be near by (a large lake, a river, etc)
* maybe the housing is mudhouse style, or made from timber with animal hides to help cover the wall gaps. but nothing ellaborate (like stone or mudbrick) if they are very nomadic.

Metal/Cloth:
* (While this depends on your climate) even in an open plains area, it can get warm since there is less natural shade. So people would opt for light armors (cloth, leather, hide) instead of heavy armors made of metal.
* For the same reason, the people would dress in light colored natural fiber (cotton) fabrics that cover the body (long pants rather than shorts) but still loose fitting for the breeze.
* if the community moves around a lot, metal objects will be rarer - not necessarily because of mineral scarcity, but rather because forges take a lot of effort to build up then break down and move. So smaller forges for making daggers and arrow heads are easier to maintain on the move than bigger forges (that could fit swords and armor).


No one would have an overabundance of possessions - some, yes, but nothing more than a person and his family, and their carts couldn't carry if need be.


Gods:
* nomads will tend to favor natural-themed gods (Pelor for the sun, Melora for flora/fauna, and maybe Kord for general storms and wild strength)... because those first two would be responsible for how plentiful the land is to sustain them (and for how long, etc). the last one is more for protection. that's not to say other gods couldn't be representated, just generally speaking nature-themed ones would be more prevalent.


but best thing i can say is, try and think of a culture (past or present or fictional) and use that for inspiration.

i'm rather tired so sorry if that comes off as a random ramble. but will add more later if i think of something after i've actually slept.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Horses will be a very valued commodity. For a variation, consider riding lizards for something more exotic.

Kurt R. A. Giambastiani used medium-sized raptors (as in carnivorous dinosaurs) as steeds for Native American tribes in his Fallen Cloud saga, and it worked quite well.

And of course, Frank Herbert's Fremen nomads had Sandworms...

Hunting:
No animal part goes to waste, skins, meat, dung, entrails, all used for something (food, fuel, cloth, etc)
They would also be respectful of the land they cross through knowing if they "scrotch and burn it" they won't be able to come back to it later when it thrives

I used to think that, but I was recently set straight by a Native American Historian- as in a Native American who was a historian of Native American tribes.

He said that when times were plentiful, Native tribes could be just as wasteful as any other society. What we think of as the norm was in fact what they did during privation- IOW, when forced.

 

[rogueboy]

Thanks for the replies.

6) They will be somewhat xenophobic. They may trade with you and dine with you, but they probably won't trust you.

I hadn't thought of this before, but for some reason it really strikes a (good) chord with me. I'll definitely have to work that in somehow.

I say stick to plains (rather than desert), that way you won't have to get in to heat / dehydration issues, etc (unless you really want to).

That's a good point about the desert involving heat/dehydration issues... I'll either stick to plains (more likely) or the edge of a desert (for some reason I'm not quite willing to give up the desert idea yet, but I may still drop that).

Animals:
Horses will be a very valued commodity. For a variation, consider riding lizards for something more exotic.

Hmmm... I like the idea of riding lizards, since one reason I liked the desert over plains was that camel-riders was a less clichéd stereotype for mounted combat than horses, at least in fantasy settings I've come across.

Hunting:
No animal part goes to waste, skins, meat, dung, entrails, all used for something (food, fuel, cloth, etc)
They would also be respectful of the land they cross through knowing if they "scrotch and burn it" they won't be able to come back to it later when it thrives

Danny points out that the first half of that wasn't entirely true for Native Americans, but I may still use that - perhaps as a societal way to ensure they don't overuse the land or perhaps as a primary tenet of their faith. I definitely like the second part, and will use that.

i'm rather tired so sorry if that comes off as a random ramble. but will add more later if i think of something after i've actually slept.

Maybe it's that I'm tired right now, but it made perfect sense to me .

Kurt R. A. Giambastiani used medium-sized raptors (as in carnivorous dinosaurs) as steeds for Native American tribes in his Fallen Cloud saga, and it worked quite well.

And of course, Frank Herbert's Fremen nomads had Sandworms...

I'm not quite sure why, but I like the idea of riding raptors...

Thanks again for all the ideas, I'll have to think about those today (mostly tonight, after classes, sadly).

 

[ArghMark]

Semi-nomadic -

This probably means that different areas of land are cultivated at different times. Perhaps there is a major city, but most of the farmers and what not would be moving around with the seasons. They probably follow a grow/harvest/burn/fallow method, especially if they are tied to certain areas.

On this level of technology, also work things less around coinage. Barter is probably a respectable way of doing things still and getting 50 sheep is a good reward; thats enough for a 'respectable' land-owner to grow and live prosperously, especially with servants.

Also you might think about castes - Are there notable differences between how landless farmers or serfs might be treated, and how people with land might be treated?
I'm just thinking ancient greece - A 'noble' is someone who owns and farms his own land, and if he's rich enough he might have a few slaves to help him as well, which also fight for him if he trains them to do so.

A semi-nomadic society is very different to a feudal one, so make sure you play up the differences. Come to the big human city in winter, and you find all of their arts and crafts. Come in spring and you find nothing but an occupation force; everyones left for the spring fields.

Also a semi-nomadic society has less of a 'middle' class of tradesmen. Certain members will always be known (Blacksmiths are a special note) but most of the nomads will be skilled enough to cure their own leather, set their own traps, and so on; everyone needs to be able to pull their weight. In this environment you just don't get tradesmen with enough time to truly put a lot of effort into making new things or better things; everyone is busy farming or hunting their seasonal areas. Hence the reason why elves and such might have such 'high quality' stuff - their craftsmen have had time to consolidate.

Also you might want to think why they are semi nomadic. Are they in a food poor area, and have to move to a place with more food every season? Are orc attacks always bad in winter, so they move into the more heavily fortified city? Have they simply not mastered farming, or is hunting enough to feed a whole cities population?

Some ideas and things to think about anyway.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Also you might want to think why they are semi nomadic. Are they in a food poor area, and have to move to a place with more food every season? Are orc attacks always bad in winter, so they move into the more heavily fortified city? Have they simply not mastered farming, or is hunting enough to feed a whole cities population?

Man, that is like THE question! Good catch!

Other possible reasons include religion, higher than average eco-awareness driving them to avoid resource depletion, chasing particularly desirable resources (salmon in the spring, honey in the summer, wild corn in the fall and shelter in the winter), or just a regular trade route.

 

[Loonook]

Nomads who carrying around walking resource-draining machines like trained carnivorous dinosaurs should die out pretty readily. Nomads like useful animals which feed readily on the land

Also, if you're going to have a human nomadic or semi-nomadic society, take into account any possible uses of magic. Uses of rituals which could produce hideaways, stronger breed or warhorse stock, and influence. Natural sites can serve as strong mystic touchstones. The wisemen of the tribal group may move their villages simply to replenish their own power (or the powers of their wards or rites). Movement due to specific concerns is also possible.

Plains and desert-based groups suffer predation, population scale issues... plenty of fun fun fun. However, there are plenty of ways these can be solved with magic and smart management much easier than management alone. Think of places which would be accessible by simple earth-moving and shaping spellcraft.

Plenty of things to go on.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Nomads who carrying around walking resource-draining machines like trained carnivorous dinosaurs should die out pretty readily. Nomads like useful animals which feed readily on the land

That depends- several nomadic and semi-nomadic tribes used hunting dogs, for instance. Trained raptors, depending upon their size and the environment, could do double duty, serving as mounts and hunting animals. Coupled with that reptilian metabolism, they might actually be more efficient to have than horses AND dogs to care for. That seemed to be the case in the K.R.A. Giambastiani books, at least, since the plains still thundered with million-beast size herds of Buffalo. If that's not enough, posit that your campaign world still contains mammoths and other megafauna appropriate to the region.

OTOH, they might also be quite rare, reserved only for high status warriors or perhaps even for specialized hunters who train and control them in packs- especially the smaller (chicken to dog sized) ones.

(BTW, the raptors don't have to be dinos, either. They could even be large flightless predatory birds like the Moas.)

Also, if you're going to have a human nomadic or semi-nomadic society, take into account any possible uses of magic. Uses of rituals which could produce hideaways, stronger breed or warhorse stock, and influence. Natural sites can serve as strong mystic touchstones. The wisemen of the tribal group may move their villages simply to replenish their own power (or the powers of their wards or rites). Movement due to specific concerns is also possible.

Too true, too true.

If your magic system is based on mana, mana itself might be a depletable resource, and the nomadic lifestyle might provide a way for the mana to be replenished. That, of course, then leads to migration routes that parallel ley lines (when possible) and sacred places being potentially dangerous and volatile regions...

 

[Loonook]

That depends- several nomadic and semi-nomadic tribes used hunting dogs, for instance. Trained raptors, depending upon their size and the environment, could do double duty, serving as mounts and hunting animals. Coupled with that reptilian metabolism, they might actually be more efficient to have than horses AND dogs to care for. That seemed to be the case in the K.R.A. Giambastiani books, at least, since the plains still thundered with million-beast size herds of Buffalo. If that's not enough, posit that your campaign world still contains mammoths and other megafauna appropriate to the region.

OTOH, they might also be quite rare, reserved only for high status warriors or perhaps even for specialized hunters who train and control them in packs- especially the smaller (chicken to dog sized) ones.

(BTW, the raptors don't have to be dinos, either. They could even be large flightless predatory birds like the Moas.)


Too true, too true.

If your magic system is based on mana, mana itself might be a depletable resource, and the nomadic lifestyle might provide a way for the mana to be replenished. That, of course, then leads to migration routes that parallel ley lines (when possible) and sacred places being potentially dangerous and volatile regions...

Yes, they could have lower metabolic rates... but they're still having to feed them ready sources of meat. Though there were large herds of buffalo in the Plains, those tribes which hunted them for meat usually followed the herds during the period. . . and didn't have to supply meat to themselves and large hungry dinosaurs.

Hunting dogs require little meat and can be fed on a mixture of grains, meat, and basically anything available... and they also will forage for small animals and be willing to eat carrion. A dinosaur the size of a horse with the same amount of activity will have a much faster metabolic rate than most reptiles, who are a.) smaller, b.) slimmer, and c.) mostly sedentary. Monitor lizards don't travel over large amounts of terrain for their prey; crocodiles and alligators gain the benefit of being close to water and able to cool/heat themselves when needed without further issue.

Hunting dogs are great, and horses are also pretty good. The moa idea isn't that bad either; they fill a similar ecological niche to horses, they supply useful materials (decorative or fletching feathers, molting down which could be preserved for clothing, good source of protein) and with their herbivorous nature and birth cycles they can be used as herd, pack, and riding animals. The smaller varieties (heavy-foot) were compact enough to be highly useful for a herding animal, and perhaps such creatures lay in large communal nests and pad them with materials (like eiderdown.) This could provide for a reason for travel (the collection of young and their nests) and provide for an interesting cityscape. Moa excrement may be similar to guano, and the human tribes may have a pretty heavy connection to fire due to the prevalence of this Fireball 'ingredient'.


There's honestly no need for a mana-based magic system for the humans to have site-based magic. Touchstone feats and similar, combined with the maintenance of ancient magics (akin to mythals or other epic magic) would allow for such things. Again, there may just be ties to locales, or specific rites which are performed there due to ready access to cheap foci. Indeed, they may have a cave where elders bring their greatest slain warriors to be raised from the dead. The cave is surrounded by a natural diamond node, and elders keep the area secret for fear of its loss.

Just a few examples.

Slainte,

-Loonook.