What would you change for d20 Modern 2.0
- Thread starter Moon_Goddess
- Start date
Falkus said:
Uh, no. Knocking someone out without risking permanent injury or death is not something that *anybody* can do. A knockout is either caused by a direct injury to the brain or by the loss of blood flow to the brain (shock). That's it. Knockouts with fists are overwhelmingly of the former variety.
But in RPGs we're a little more merciful and cleave to cinematic guidelines about KOs, which do not include things like permanent brain damage, sudden death long after the fact, retroctive amnesia and long term complications caused by brain lesions, cerebral hematomas and a swollen dura mater.
The fact of the matter is that people can knock each other out regardless of how experienced they are, but trained fighters can inflict even more injury. In RPGs we make room for movie-style knockouts which leave a slight headache and little else, but in cinema, those knockouts are delivered by novices just fine, too. So it doesn't work for reality *or* cinema.
Part of the problem, too, is that the threshold for significant injury is far higher for D20 characters than for regular people, but D20 characters are injured in a much more statistically regular fashion than real people. In real life, some people get shot 20 times in the torso and live; others get shot once in the foot and die. This kind of chaos is unsatisfying in a game system, so instead, we have people who are harder to incapacitate that real people and who react to injuries in a much more consistent fashion.
kroh said:You wouldn't say that if you knew me...![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
Yes, I would. I would say it right to your face.
Kyushojutsu applications are not only not true knockouts (they usually take balance, making it look like the person is knocked out when they are merely rocked a bit and knocked *down*), but usually rely on a compliant uke, to boot. People are capable of great feats when they work with classmates and compliant uke. They are somehow not so assured without them.
The exceptions are shots that impede blood flow and shots that cause jarring motion in the head and neck, such as the common grab and GB20 hammerfist strike in Naihanchi.
kroh
First Post
eyebeams said:
Say what you like my friend...just thought it would be fun to put a picture with the discussion. Every one's tough behind the computer screen. I won't derail the thread. If you want to talk about those things either go to martialtalk.com, budoseek.net, defend.net, or fightingarts.com and find my discussions there to comment on.
Would puting all the different setting tool kits (future, past, cyber, etc) in the same book benefit d20 Modern or do you think that it would make the book too clunky.
Regards,
Walt
wingsandsword
Legend
If you're knocked out in d20 Modern from nonlethal damage, it's only for 1d4+1 rounds.
Now, as somebody who has had to use martial arts in a self defense context twice (once to subdue a drunken and violent college dorm roommate, once to stop a mugger in a parking lot), a well executed jujitsu or aikijutsu technique knocking somebody to the ground and incapacitating them for 12 to 30 seconds seems very reasonable. Most people when they get into a fight aren't expecting to hit the ground quickly, and it can be very disorienting, putting them effectively out of the fight for a while.
"Knock out" in d20 Modern doesn't mean concussion or blood loss to the brain, it means they are out of action and helpless for a short time. They are "unconscious", which is defined as "An unconscious character is unable to defend himself. He is helpless and typically falls prone". Much like a "knockout" in boxing doesn't mean they are medically unconscious, just that they couldn't get back on their feet by a count of 10, the game definition of Unconscious isn't the medical definition, it's that they are helpless, defenseless, and most likely on the ground.
Now, as somebody who has had to use martial arts in a self defense context twice (once to subdue a drunken and violent college dorm roommate, once to stop a mugger in a parking lot), a well executed jujitsu or aikijutsu technique knocking somebody to the ground and incapacitating them for 12 to 30 seconds seems very reasonable. Most people when they get into a fight aren't expecting to hit the ground quickly, and it can be very disorienting, putting them effectively out of the fight for a while.
"Knock out" in d20 Modern doesn't mean concussion or blood loss to the brain, it means they are out of action and helpless for a short time. They are "unconscious", which is defined as "An unconscious character is unable to defend himself. He is helpless and typically falls prone". Much like a "knockout" in boxing doesn't mean they are medically unconscious, just that they couldn't get back on their feet by a count of 10, the game definition of Unconscious isn't the medical definition, it's that they are helpless, defenseless, and most likely on the ground.
