What would you do with this oathbreaking paladin?

[Altalazar]

For a Paladin, there can truly be no such thing as an unbreakable oath.

What if the only way for the Paladin to save a poor peasant was to give up the Arrow to the Dragon? Should he follow the Oath and let the peasant, a total innocent, die? That would be an evil act. There is no guarantee giving up the arrow would actually cause anyone any harm. As others have pointed out, it may simply have been destroyed.

In contract law, there is a rule that an unconscionable contract will NOT be enforced - because a court of equity will not be used as an instrument for non-equity. What makes a contract unconscionable is often the changed circumstances.

If following the oath prevents a current, needed good from happening, then it should be broken and with NO consequences - because it would be the right thing to do. No god who would enforce an oath in such a manner when it would cause immediate harm to the side of good - at least no LG god would - and by defintion with a Paladin, it is a LG god.

Think of it this way - the GOD must be held to exactly the same standards as the Paladin. If the Paladin were in a situation where HE had gotten an oath from someone, and a situation came up where either that person would violate the oath or they would follow it and sacrifice some good that needed doing, would the Paladin be expected to allow the oath to lapse and let them do the greater good or would they have to smite them, despite the good, for the mere violation of the oath? I'd think that the LG paladin would have to let the oath slide - and so the diety could do no different.

 

[Ylis]

Just as a random side-note. The paladin could have avoided all of this by doing this instead.

"This is an arrow of dragon-slaying. I could fire it at you, and you do not know for certain that you would survive. But because a greater good may be served, I ask that you accept this, not as a gesture of weakness, but as a sign of my desire for a peace between us for this time." And then he breaks the arrow in half and casts it aside.

As a gesture of goodwill, it might impress the dragon. The arrow is not in evil's hands, and, by helping the paladin impress the dragon with his resolve, the arrow has helped the cause of good. It's not exactly what the paladin swore to do, but it's not a violation of the spirit -- it's being used for good, and kept from the service of evil.

Bring out the "Doh!" stick! Why didn't I think of that <sigh>

 

[pawsplay]

The Paladin sold the arrow for goodwill. He used it as a bribe. In other words, he completely broke his oath. He is also gave it to a devious evil creature who will probably put it in the hands of some kind of minion later. He acted expediently, when he had other options.

Paladins face dilemmas, but a Paladin should never simply act expediently when there are alternatives, however faint. Note that I said should, not can not. Maybe the Paladin was smart. If so, he can take his lumps, atone, get his powers back, and consider himself having learned a valuable lesson.

 

[Voadam]

Even if he were a 20th level Paladin. He needs information the Blue Dragon has, and I suppose it's for a greater good, otherwise not even a regular Fighter would be talking to an evil dragon...
If he slays it... no info...
As someone pointed out, Lawful Good isn't Stupid Stupid

Speak with dead.

 

[Silveras]

Just as a random side-note. The paladin could have avoided all of this by doing this instead.

"This is an arrow of dragon-slaying. I could fire it at you, and you do not know for certain that you would survive. But because a greater good may be served, I ask that you accept this, not as a gesture of weakness, but as a sign of my desire for a peace between us for this time." And then he breaks the arrow in half and casts it aside.

As a gesture of goodwill, it might impress the dragon. The arrow is not in evil's hands, and, by helping the paladin impress the dragon with his resolve, the arrow has helped the cause of good. It's not exactly what the paladin swore to do, but it's not a violation of the spirit -- it's being used for good, and kept from the service of evil.

Actually, that would be a violation of both the letter and spirit of the oath.

As described, the oath amounts to "Use it to kill an evil dragon, or pass it on to a good creature who will".

Any other use violates both the spirit and letter of the oath.

 

[Matafuego]

Speak with dead.

Wow... I thought the creature had to be "willing" (that's the soul) fro the spell to work...
I'm banning this spell from my campaign right now.
It's very very powerful for evil clerics and it's only level 3 :S

 

[Epametheus]

Wow... I thought the creature had to be "willing" (that's the soul) fro the spell to work...
I'm banning this spell from my campaign right now.
It's very very powerful for evil clerics and it's only level 3 :S

It allows a will save if the corpse has a different alignment from the caster, you only get 1 question for every two levels (so a 5th level cleric gets 2 questions), and it can only be tried once a week.

Good luck getting it to work on a dragon.

As for the topic: permanently stripping away paladinhood for what's actually a pretty neat gesture is a bit harsh.

 

[Endur]

I would not have dropped his paladinhood for this.

Either the Paladin didn't remember the oath, in which case the oath lacked meaning, and therefore it doesn't make sense to punish him for violating it.

Alternatively, the Paladin thought the greater good necessitated giving the weapon to the evil dragon.

Now, on the other hand, if an evil Dragonslayer had asked for the arrow so that he could kill a Gold Dragon, I might have dropped his paladinhood for giving the arrow to an evil Dragonslayer.

But, the Blue Dragon might very well destroy the arrow, so I don't see it as an issue. Afterall, its not like the Blue Dragon will trust anyone enough to give them the arrow.

I also dropped his paladinhood on the spot.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Just as a random side-note. The paladin could have avoided all of this by doing this instead.

"This is an arrow of dragon-slaying. I could fire it at you, and you do not know for certain that you would survive. But because a greater good may be served, I ask that you accept this, not as a gesture of weakness, but as a sign of my desire for a peace between us for this time." And then he breaks the arrow in half and casts it aside.

As a gesture of goodwill, it might impress the dragon. The arrow is not in evil's hands, and, by helping the paladin impress the dragon with his resolve, the arrow has helped the cause of good. It's not exactly what the paladin swore to do, but it's not a violation of the spirit -- it's being used for good, and kept from the service of evil.

That's beautiful.

That's really, really beautiful.

It upholds the oath he swore (likely in a more effective fashion than firing the arrow, since dragons' saves are so strong), provides a good dramatic hook, and would probably sincerely impress the dragon-- a creature that is not accustomed to being impressed by lowly, fleshy mammals.

Hell, I'm impressed, and I'm not accustomed to being impressed-- by much of anything.