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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What would you say is the biggest problem with Wizards, Clerics, Druids, and other "Tier 1" Spellcasters?
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<blockquote data-quote="Nezkrul" data-source="post: 6072960" data-attributes="member: 6682154"><p>You can't tell us that 3.X is broken because 4.0 does things this way... 4.0 is a completely different system, and IMHO it isn't DND anymore. Its everyone is a guy with the same number of abilities that do the same things based on the role you wanted to play. That's it. It is oversimplified to the point of no one is special ever. I hate 4e. And 5.0 isn't looking any better.</p><p></p><p>Comparing PF to 3.X is is a little bit better to use than 4.0 because the guy who wrote PF basically just created his own campaign and houserules, got it published, and instead of sitting down and doing the work themselves people started buying this guy's books (laziness = money I guess)</p><p></p><p>I see nothing wrong with invisibility. By the time the wizard can cast it, it only lasts 3 minutes (or 1 minute at 1st level if you take a certain feat). It goes away as soon as he takes a hostile action. A spot check against DC 20 allows a person/creature to notice the prescence of an invisible creature within 10 feat of them (reflexively), a move Action spot check against the target's hide+20 allows them to pinpoint the square, and many other abilities allow them to pinpoint the square (like scent, tremorsense, blindsight, blindsense, glitterdust, faerie fire, the environment (ie foot prints, or dusty air moving for no reason)) I don't understand people's frustration over this so-called buff. The one you should really be mad at is Greater Invisibility (the 4th level version), that doesn't go away when the recipient attacks. ORS has been a staple control spell since 1e. It's like paladin bubble from WOW but forced on a target with a save to "evade" it - it shouldn't allow a save and only last 1 rd/level IMO, its made of "invisible force" so how do you dodge it? Evard's Black Tentacles is also a (better) control spell because it affects an area, can cause damage to the baddies you want to control, and remains a threat even if someone escapes it.</p><p></p><p>If you never give your spellcasters time to prepare then you shouldn't allow the non-spellcasters time to heal hitpoints without the aid of magic. If you want to punish your players because they are playing their class intelligently, disallow the class before even starting the game - you won't ever run into problems that way. Banning spells that are used intelligently after the fact is also punishing your player for playing his class. Don't do that. Talk with your player about how you feel about the imbalancing nature of that spell and work with him to come up with a solution. The only type of character that doesn't benefit from downtime is the melee blockhead type, who have low to no skills of any use other than combat. Consequently, these classes are boring to play because of the lack of things it can do outside of its Area of Expertise. That being said, you can build them to be better outside combat, but that requires the use of intelligence, ingenuity, roleplaying, and.... DOWNTIME!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Nezkrul, post: 6072960, member: 6682154"] You can't tell us that 3.X is broken because 4.0 does things this way... 4.0 is a completely different system, and IMHO it isn't DND anymore. Its everyone is a guy with the same number of abilities that do the same things based on the role you wanted to play. That's it. It is oversimplified to the point of no one is special ever. I hate 4e. And 5.0 isn't looking any better. Comparing PF to 3.X is is a little bit better to use than 4.0 because the guy who wrote PF basically just created his own campaign and houserules, got it published, and instead of sitting down and doing the work themselves people started buying this guy's books (laziness = money I guess) I see nothing wrong with invisibility. By the time the wizard can cast it, it only lasts 3 minutes (or 1 minute at 1st level if you take a certain feat). It goes away as soon as he takes a hostile action. A spot check against DC 20 allows a person/creature to notice the prescence of an invisible creature within 10 feat of them (reflexively), a move Action spot check against the target's hide+20 allows them to pinpoint the square, and many other abilities allow them to pinpoint the square (like scent, tremorsense, blindsight, blindsense, glitterdust, faerie fire, the environment (ie foot prints, or dusty air moving for no reason)) I don't understand people's frustration over this so-called buff. The one you should really be mad at is Greater Invisibility (the 4th level version), that doesn't go away when the recipient attacks. ORS has been a staple control spell since 1e. It's like paladin bubble from WOW but forced on a target with a save to "evade" it - it shouldn't allow a save and only last 1 rd/level IMO, its made of "invisible force" so how do you dodge it? Evard's Black Tentacles is also a (better) control spell because it affects an area, can cause damage to the baddies you want to control, and remains a threat even if someone escapes it. If you never give your spellcasters time to prepare then you shouldn't allow the non-spellcasters time to heal hitpoints without the aid of magic. If you want to punish your players because they are playing their class intelligently, disallow the class before even starting the game - you won't ever run into problems that way. Banning spells that are used intelligently after the fact is also punishing your player for playing his class. Don't do that. Talk with your player about how you feel about the imbalancing nature of that spell and work with him to come up with a solution. The only type of character that doesn't benefit from downtime is the melee blockhead type, who have low to no skills of any use other than combat. Consequently, these classes are boring to play because of the lack of things it can do outside of its Area of Expertise. That being said, you can build them to be better outside combat, but that requires the use of intelligence, ingenuity, roleplaying, and.... DOWNTIME! [/QUOTE]
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What would you say is the biggest problem with Wizards, Clerics, Druids, and other "Tier 1" Spellcasters?
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