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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What would you say is the biggest problem with Wizards, Clerics, Druids, and other "Tier 1" Spellcasters?
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<blockquote data-quote="billd91" data-source="post: 6074507" data-attributes="member: 3400"><p>I don't think it's particularly mysterious why they went this route. It's historical. In 1e and 2e, PCs who weren't in melee contact with their opponents had to close first, and if they had to do so, they were allowed <strong>a</strong> melee attack. In 1e, within melee contact is within 1" of scale (10' indoors, 30' outdoors). In 2e, the rule for movement and melee says characters can move half their full round movement rate and get <strong>a</strong> melee attack. In neither case does it state that the PCs can get their full melee attack rate or melee attack routine. It's just a melee attack. 2e's rule translates quite well into the move action/standard action formulation for 3e.</p><p></p><p>The big question is why did spellcasters, who used to be unable to move or gain their Dex bonus in a round when they are casting, suddenly get to take a move action along with most of their spells? <strong>That's</strong> the real change. My guess is it was the unfun complaint. So they removed those two drawbacks. Then they included a Concentration check when hit so the spell loss isn't automatic. And then magic item creation. And then most differing spell casting times and their effect on initiative. And so on. Very few of those changes, taken in isolation, would undermine game balance (with the possible exception of magic item creation and some really cocked up prices). Taken all together, you've got a different animal for any player willing to exploit it.</p><p></p><p>For what it's worth, standardizing the action economy is a frequent remedy - but most often directed toward dropping the spellcaster back into a slower and more vulnerable mode. And I think from a simulative perspective, that works pretty well.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="billd91, post: 6074507, member: 3400"] I don't think it's particularly mysterious why they went this route. It's historical. In 1e and 2e, PCs who weren't in melee contact with their opponents had to close first, and if they had to do so, they were allowed [b]a[/b] melee attack. In 1e, within melee contact is within 1" of scale (10' indoors, 30' outdoors). In 2e, the rule for movement and melee says characters can move half their full round movement rate and get [b]a[/b] melee attack. In neither case does it state that the PCs can get their full melee attack rate or melee attack routine. It's just a melee attack. 2e's rule translates quite well into the move action/standard action formulation for 3e. The big question is why did spellcasters, who used to be unable to move or gain their Dex bonus in a round when they are casting, suddenly get to take a move action along with most of their spells? [b]That's[/b] the real change. My guess is it was the unfun complaint. So they removed those two drawbacks. Then they included a Concentration check when hit so the spell loss isn't automatic. And then magic item creation. And then most differing spell casting times and their effect on initiative. And so on. Very few of those changes, taken in isolation, would undermine game balance (with the possible exception of magic item creation and some really cocked up prices). Taken all together, you've got a different animal for any player willing to exploit it. For what it's worth, standardizing the action economy is a frequent remedy - but most often directed toward dropping the spellcaster back into a slower and more vulnerable mode. And I think from a simulative perspective, that works pretty well. [/QUOTE]
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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What would you say is the biggest problem with Wizards, Clerics, Druids, and other "Tier 1" Spellcasters?
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