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What would you say is the biggest problem with Wizards, Clerics, Druids, and other "Tier 1" Spellcasters?
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<blockquote data-quote="Elf Witch" data-source="post: 6074683" data-attributes="member: 9037"><p>I don't agree with you about so much of this I have to wonder if you truly believe that the only reason not to make it easy to take a companion some place is because it is used to nerf druids. Using the bear example what if the druid leaves the bear and calls an squid or a shark or a dolphin then just how much have you nerfed the druid. The only reason I would do it is for story reasons. Any one just doing it to nerf the druid is not doing a very good job of it because the druid can just pick up another companion with 24 hours of uninterrupted prayer. And right there in the players handbook it says "this animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the druid on her adventures as appropriate for its kind." </p><p></p><p>I do agree if the DM is only doing it to nerf the companion which is really not a good nerf then yes that is wrong if they feel it is game breaking then they need to take it out of the game.</p><p></p><p>And I do think game limitations work in some cases. You mentioned being on a ship well in that case the DM needs to recognize that the a wizard may be able to craft a lot of things in the period and if that is an issue in his game then fix it before it becomes an issue with mechanical fixes. But not all games run like this Age of Worms for example does not have built in breaks as easily. </p><p></p><p>But I can see in game sound challenges to this crafting an item while the ship is in a storm or on rough seas should not be as easy as crafting back home in your library. You have to make sure you have all the supplies you need. </p><p></p><p>I personally don't have much issue with crafting because it is not something that gets abused often in my games so I am content for the most part in some of my campaigns to allow it. If you think it is an issue then fix it or ban it in your home campaign. Or play an edition that is better suited for this.</p><p></p><p>As for rope trick it should work sometimes and sometimes it should not also the 15 workday only happens if other players and the DM allow it. What I find interesting is the argument that wizards have to much magic and are to powerful yet there is an issue about them burning their resources to fast. Which would easily be fixed by allowing them more resources to get their spells back sooner. It seems schizophrenic to me </p><p></p><p>Pacing does work because there are going to be times that stopping just because the party wizard is out of spells is going to bite them in the butt. It is not just a matter of controlling the pacing but makes real world logical sense. If they have to stop a sacrifice before the full moon which is three days away if they stop to rest every single time for the wizard to get back spells they are not going to make it. If you go into a dungeon kick over the hornet nest have an encounter then run and hide for 24 hours you can't expect that denizens to just go into stasis it is going to be a little harder as they dig in and search for the intruders. That is not the DM screwing over the players that is a fair DM running the world in logical manner. </p><p></p><p>If you do a mix of sometimes they can rest and sometimes they can't the players usually learn that doing so does not guarantee things are better so they don't use it as tactic all the time. </p><p></p><p>But some of this has to do with your players and their style of play and that the DM can control better than any mechanic. If you have players who like to nova and then rest let them plan the game around that have one big encounter every day. If you don't like that then talk to your players that usually solves more issues than changing the rules to try and stop abuse that only some DMs deal with. </p><p></p><p>I have never played with a group that has this kind of logic we keep going on the only thing that will stop us is lack of healing and injured party members. And we know by resting early it is going to make things more difficult but we are taking what we see as the lessor of two evils which is resting so we stand a chance of living through the rest of the adventure. </p><p></p><p>I do not see the 15 day as a mechanical issues as much as it is a playstyle issue. I have noticed it goes hand in hand with the issue of players getting resentful if the DM temporary nerfs any of their abilities like a druid not taking his eagle into the water or the rogue complaining because this section of the dungeon has a lot of oozes and puddings and things he can't use his sneak attack on or the fighter upset because his sword got sundered or the wizard is in a dead magic zone. </p><p></p><p>These kind of players don't like having any of the abilities nerfed ever for any reason and are more likely going to want to stop if the wizard is out of spells. And the only fix is to let wizards get their spells back faster nad personally that would over power them in my games and take awy some of the challenges and balances in the game that are there to help make the mundane characters have things that make them special.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elf Witch, post: 6074683, member: 9037"] I don't agree with you about so much of this I have to wonder if you truly believe that the only reason not to make it easy to take a companion some place is because it is used to nerf druids. Using the bear example what if the druid leaves the bear and calls an squid or a shark or a dolphin then just how much have you nerfed the druid. The only reason I would do it is for story reasons. Any one just doing it to nerf the druid is not doing a very good job of it because the druid can just pick up another companion with 24 hours of uninterrupted prayer. And right there in the players handbook it says "this animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the druid on her adventures as appropriate for its kind." I do agree if the DM is only doing it to nerf the companion which is really not a good nerf then yes that is wrong if they feel it is game breaking then they need to take it out of the game. And I do think game limitations work in some cases. You mentioned being on a ship well in that case the DM needs to recognize that the a wizard may be able to craft a lot of things in the period and if that is an issue in his game then fix it before it becomes an issue with mechanical fixes. But not all games run like this Age of Worms for example does not have built in breaks as easily. But I can see in game sound challenges to this crafting an item while the ship is in a storm or on rough seas should not be as easy as crafting back home in your library. You have to make sure you have all the supplies you need. I personally don't have much issue with crafting because it is not something that gets abused often in my games so I am content for the most part in some of my campaigns to allow it. If you think it is an issue then fix it or ban it in your home campaign. Or play an edition that is better suited for this. As for rope trick it should work sometimes and sometimes it should not also the 15 workday only happens if other players and the DM allow it. What I find interesting is the argument that wizards have to much magic and are to powerful yet there is an issue about them burning their resources to fast. Which would easily be fixed by allowing them more resources to get their spells back sooner. It seems schizophrenic to me Pacing does work because there are going to be times that stopping just because the party wizard is out of spells is going to bite them in the butt. It is not just a matter of controlling the pacing but makes real world logical sense. If they have to stop a sacrifice before the full moon which is three days away if they stop to rest every single time for the wizard to get back spells they are not going to make it. If you go into a dungeon kick over the hornet nest have an encounter then run and hide for 24 hours you can't expect that denizens to just go into stasis it is going to be a little harder as they dig in and search for the intruders. That is not the DM screwing over the players that is a fair DM running the world in logical manner. If you do a mix of sometimes they can rest and sometimes they can't the players usually learn that doing so does not guarantee things are better so they don't use it as tactic all the time. But some of this has to do with your players and their style of play and that the DM can control better than any mechanic. If you have players who like to nova and then rest let them plan the game around that have one big encounter every day. If you don't like that then talk to your players that usually solves more issues than changing the rules to try and stop abuse that only some DMs deal with. I have never played with a group that has this kind of logic we keep going on the only thing that will stop us is lack of healing and injured party members. And we know by resting early it is going to make things more difficult but we are taking what we see as the lessor of two evils which is resting so we stand a chance of living through the rest of the adventure. I do not see the 15 day as a mechanical issues as much as it is a playstyle issue. I have noticed it goes hand in hand with the issue of players getting resentful if the DM temporary nerfs any of their abilities like a druid not taking his eagle into the water or the rogue complaining because this section of the dungeon has a lot of oozes and puddings and things he can't use his sneak attack on or the fighter upset because his sword got sundered or the wizard is in a dead magic zone. These kind of players don't like having any of the abilities nerfed ever for any reason and are more likely going to want to stop if the wizard is out of spells. And the only fix is to let wizards get their spells back faster nad personally that would over power them in my games and take awy some of the challenges and balances in the game that are there to help make the mundane characters have things that make them special. [/QUOTE]
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What would you say is the biggest problem with Wizards, Clerics, Druids, and other "Tier 1" Spellcasters?
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