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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
What would you say is the biggest problem with Wizards, Clerics, Druids, and other "Tier 1" Spellcasters?
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6075173" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>Given that a crowbar will open most locks, probably.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>It depends on the campaign</em>. The wizard makes certain to keep a handful of useful scrolls at all times and then buys replacements. If it's locks-from-hell he might even invest in *gasp* a wand. But I've never seen that wanted.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>He can do it at twice the price, less reliably, without offensive spells (other than the few like Evard's that don't really care about stats), and by not putting his money into things like weapons.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Either </p><p>(a) On the BBEG</p><p>(b) When he has enough spells that he can Nova and have some spare. A full nova is probably only five spells.</p><p>(c) When he intends to teleport back to base anyway.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Then he's stupid. Why do you insist on putting a D on the front of the wizard's pointy hat?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Assuming (a) 100% success and (b) you never need to create one. So no. The rogue can't. Which doesn't mean the best option for a rogue is to pretend to be a wizard because UMD is one of the two best skills in the game (only rivaled by RAW Diplomacy)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Because the Wizard also brings spells of his own.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>L3 spells? Like Stinking Cloud or Slow? Good enough to deal with chaff on their own. Hell, even Glitterdust and Web deal well enough with wandering monsters and the random wilderness encounters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Three dozen comes about four levels later.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Good job the archetypal party is 4 people. And You don't want horses or pack animals - you're going home every night.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Indeed. You certainly study carefully wherever you had your lunch.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Which is why you have <em>one</em> scroll of teleport. It'll be needed eventually.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You mean the Kraken isn't dragging people underwater anyway?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Indeed. He's just made the job <em>much</em> easier.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure by level 13 your level 1 and 2 spells matter too much. And a Solar Simulacrum can do most of what Unseen Servant can do <em>and </em>is incredibly useful. I prefer characters to caricatures myself, which is why I don't assum the wizard is stupid.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Once again your wizards are stupid. If it's on the ground, pick it up <em>and throw it away</em> if the goblins are that close. And then the other two wizards turn round and nuke the goblins. They know where the centre of the silence is and you've bought them the space to walk out of it. Why do you assume an Int 18+ wizard is stupid?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Rope trick in the dungeon is IMO asking for trouble.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nice to know that you are deliberately going to a judge who agrees with you because he's your friend rather than because he's looking at the case. Magic swords are often <em>treasure</em>. Sold for half value or given away for favours.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's only a straight trade <em>if the crafter is letting himself be abused</em>. Rather than being compensated for XP. And yes, it's a team game. But if we want to talk about a team game, we need to make the case that upgrading the fighter's sword from +1 to +2 is worth more than 6000GP worth of scrolls.</p><p></p><p>Because that's the other problem with the 3.X fighter archetype. In order to do anything they <em>leech</em> resources from the party. They need items - and can't pitch in. They need healing - and can't pitch in. They need buffs - and can't pitch in. The only time they pitch in as more than a warm body is standing in the way of the bad guy. Which is important - but the cleric does this too. As does the druid and the druid's animal companion.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6075173, member: 87792"] Given that a crowbar will open most locks, probably. [I]It depends on the campaign[/I]. The wizard makes certain to keep a handful of useful scrolls at all times and then buys replacements. If it's locks-from-hell he might even invest in *gasp* a wand. But I've never seen that wanted. He can do it at twice the price, less reliably, without offensive spells (other than the few like Evard's that don't really care about stats), and by not putting his money into things like weapons. Either (a) On the BBEG (b) When he has enough spells that he can Nova and have some spare. A full nova is probably only five spells. (c) When he intends to teleport back to base anyway. Then he's stupid. Why do you insist on putting a D on the front of the wizard's pointy hat? Assuming (a) 100% success and (b) you never need to create one. So no. The rogue can't. Which doesn't mean the best option for a rogue is to pretend to be a wizard because UMD is one of the two best skills in the game (only rivaled by RAW Diplomacy) Because the Wizard also brings spells of his own. L3 spells? Like Stinking Cloud or Slow? Good enough to deal with chaff on their own. Hell, even Glitterdust and Web deal well enough with wandering monsters and the random wilderness encounters. Three dozen comes about four levels later. Good job the archetypal party is 4 people. And You don't want horses or pack animals - you're going home every night. Indeed. You certainly study carefully wherever you had your lunch. Which is why you have [I]one[/I] scroll of teleport. It'll be needed eventually. You mean the Kraken isn't dragging people underwater anyway? Indeed. He's just made the job [I]much[/I] easier. I'm not sure by level 13 your level 1 and 2 spells matter too much. And a Solar Simulacrum can do most of what Unseen Servant can do [I]and [/I]is incredibly useful. I prefer characters to caricatures myself, which is why I don't assum the wizard is stupid. Once again your wizards are stupid. If it's on the ground, pick it up [I]and throw it away[/I] if the goblins are that close. And then the other two wizards turn round and nuke the goblins. They know where the centre of the silence is and you've bought them the space to walk out of it. Why do you assume an Int 18+ wizard is stupid? Rope trick in the dungeon is IMO asking for trouble. Nice to know that you are deliberately going to a judge who agrees with you because he's your friend rather than because he's looking at the case. Magic swords are often [I]treasure[/I]. Sold for half value or given away for favours. It's only a straight trade [I]if the crafter is letting himself be abused[/I]. Rather than being compensated for XP. And yes, it's a team game. But if we want to talk about a team game, we need to make the case that upgrading the fighter's sword from +1 to +2 is worth more than 6000GP worth of scrolls. Because that's the other problem with the 3.X fighter archetype. In order to do anything they [I]leech[/I] resources from the party. They need items - and can't pitch in. They need healing - and can't pitch in. They need buffs - and can't pitch in. The only time they pitch in as more than a warm body is standing in the way of the bad guy. Which is important - but the cleric does this too. As does the druid and the druid's animal companion. [/QUOTE]
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General Tabletop Discussion
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What would you say is the biggest problem with Wizards, Clerics, Druids, and other "Tier 1" Spellcasters?
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