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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Obryn" data-source="post: 6075429" data-attributes="member: 11821">This isn't a vacuum. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  Having seen caster supremacy and the bystander effect in full force in my game, I'd say it's immensely relevant.  (That's also how the tier system works - you're comparing classes' effectiveness to one another.  And that's what the thread's about.  So if you give one set of handicaps to one class, it's completely relevant how other classes would work with similar handicaps.)So I can't see what you're trying to prove here.  If the only test you hope turns out the way you want assumes that the DM handicaps the wizard, makes sure they never get any spell scrolls*, and only gets the 20 spells they learn from leveling up... well, that doesn't exactly sound like the system is working like it should.  It sounds like the DM is compensating for a broken system.(Also relevant: Clerics.  No scroll issue there.)-O* For reference, a full third of minor magic items, 15% of medium ones, and 10% of major ones are scrolls.  Of these, 70% are arcane.</blockquote>