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Message: <blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6075548" data-attributes="member: 6681948">I like this idea.  For a much longer exercise, stevelabny, the person claiming Wizards are vastly overpowered could prepare a series of published scenarios from L1 to L10.  If we're concerned about a cheat here, the list goes to a neutral arbitrator in advance.  It is assumed the wizard gets his pick of arcane items (on the assumption only he can use them), likely gets stuck with arcane items because no one else can use them, but does not get his pick of items others could use.  Post the L1 wizard.  Then post the treasure gained to L2.  Then the Wizard levels up.  So on to L10.  And let him have crafting feats under this model.  There's the organic wizard. As to "what if the fighter doesn't get his specialized weapons", perhaps a fighter growing in such a setting doesn't use specialization feats at all.  There are lots of other feats.  Maybe he isn't a fighter at all, but a Barbarian or a Ranger.If we assume MagicMarts, then the Fighter should be able to augment the existing sword, not sell it for half and buy a new +2 one.  And I agree on that scroll reliance issue.  If the wizard is largely reliant on consumables, and the fighter focuses on non-consumables, the fighter will have more wealth, and the wizard less, at later levels.  Whether the fighter has more than WBL, or the wizard less, or both, depends where you assume consumables are used as a standard.As a point of order, the Wizard can take 10 on a spellcraft check, so he should never fail a roll for a spell at his level, assuming he max'es spellcraft.The organic wizard becomes interesting in this regard.So let's see a third Wizard, with MagicMart in full swing.  Let's see all three comparables, for Wizard and Fighter both.  If removal of MagicMart is the answer to balance, it seems a simple enough fix.Let's vet that.  The Wizard gets Scribe Scroll at L1, so that's automatic.  The others have level requirements.  Brew Potion L3; Magic Arms L5; Rod L9; Staff L12; Wand L5; Wondrous Item L3; Ring L12; Scroll L1 but that's automatic.  25% you can't have at all by 10th level.  None can be taken at 1st, so the human's bonus feat is irrelevant.  The other five will require all of your post-L1 feats (2 bonus and one each at L3, L6 and L9), but is do-able. Show me the fully statted Wizard at each of levels 1 to 10 assuming you can buy whatever you can afford.  Let's go with MagicMart.  Let's assume unlimited down time. Offsetting these, though, you never find an item you keep - everything costs full price, except what you craft yourself.  You can Take 10 on Spellcraft, so you should  not fail any spell rolls, but remember you need to be able to take 10 for items you craft.  Let's audit the character.Your build.  You pick the feats and the items.  But, as stevelabny said, core only.  If you want, provide a second example where you can pick from anywhere, but all that really proves is that OPTIONAL rules should be vetted, and selectively added as appropriate to the specific campagn.  I think we also need some attrition of those scrolls you rely on at each and every level.  What's a fair proportion of those scrolls you scribe that get used up over the course of the level?  I think it depends on which scrolls you scribe - utility spells only get used if the situation comes up (caveat - where's the added power if they are never used?  that means they are never needed!) but offense/defense/buff scrolls likely get used up much faster.We're also assuming no item is ever lost, stolen,  broken, sundered, etc.Oh, that reminds me - comparable fighters are assumed to have access to an item crafter as well, with his choice of as many Craft feats as your wizard takes.  It's a team game.To me, it should be exactly as easy as it is to get a PC to lend his spellbook out to a stranger.We started 3.0 with a party including a sorcerer, not a wizard (though our rogue multiclassed for Arcane Archer).  My recollection was that many arcane adversaries were sorcerors - I remember looking for spell books pretty often specifically because the sorcerer wouldn't take them, so we could sell them.  I found few if any - that was using the earliest published modules, IIRC.  Modules tend to skew to scrolls of curatives, IIRC, and a lot more potions than one would expect.But, again, use a "buy what you like" model.  Let's see that.</blockquote>

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