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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elf Witch" data-source="post: 6075646" data-attributes="member: 9037">That is bullcrap plenty of games have been played with no dedicated mage and the party has lived. And I saw parties with just fighters and a cleric turned into corpses back in the days of AD&D so much depends on planning and sheer luck of the dice. And plemty of people have mo problem playing 3.5 or Pathfinder and don't feel buy this whole meme of casters turning everyone into by standers.  Yes I nerf some of the magic in my games but not because I think magic is broken and ruins the game but because I prefer as more low magic grit and gritty style game. My son and his group play both 3.5 and Pathfinder and they are all a bunch of power gamers and optimizers. They know how to build super optimized wizards and they do, we talked about this subject at my son's birthday dinner and they don't buy the whole mundane and muggles meme either. The reason this annoys me so much is the attitude that those of us who enjoy 3.5 and don't agree with all the issues that some people have are some how just not playing the game in an optimized way or the the DM is going out of his way to just nerf and punish the mages in every session. It s an assumption that we don't know what we are doing well maybe the reason you have such an issue is that your DMs don't what they are doing when it comes to running a high level game with high powered magic in it so that everyone gets to have fun.</blockquote>

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